NFL Off Season
- Thread starter Nick M
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An ESPN panel of coaches and execs ranked their top qbs in the post 78 era and their list was interesting.
They panel voted and their votes were indexed across ten ballots. Everyone involved were SB winners during their tenures.
1. Brady: 86 index, highest 1st, lowest 6th
2. Peyton: 80 index, highest 1st, lowest 5th
3. Montana: 78 index, highest 1st, lowest 9th
4. Elway: 66 index, highest 1st, lowest 8th
5. Rodgers: 56 index, highest 3rd, lowest NR
6. Favre: 49 index, highest 4th, lowest NR
T Marino: Highest 3rd, lowest NR
8. Young: 44 index, highest 2nd, lowest NR
9. Brees: 40 index, highest 4, lowest NR
10. Fouts: 22 index, highest 4, lowest NR
Not considered: Bradshaw and a number of stars at the position prior to 78.
If I had to use the list I'd rank them: Montana, Brady, Peyton, Young, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, Elway, Favre, Fouts.
They panel voted and their votes were indexed across ten ballots. Everyone involved were SB winners during their tenures.
1. Brady: 86 index, highest 1st, lowest 6th
2. Peyton: 80 index, highest 1st, lowest 5th
3. Montana: 78 index, highest 1st, lowest 9th
4. Elway: 66 index, highest 1st, lowest 8th
5. Rodgers: 56 index, highest 3rd, lowest NR
6. Favre: 49 index, highest 4th, lowest NR
T Marino: Highest 3rd, lowest NR
8. Young: 44 index, highest 2nd, lowest NR
9. Brees: 40 index, highest 4, lowest NR
10. Fouts: 22 index, highest 4, lowest NR
Not considered: Bradshaw and a number of stars at the position prior to 78.
If I had to use the list I'd rank them: Montana, Brady, Peyton, Young, Marino, Rodgers, Brees, Elway, Favre, Fouts.
thesocrates
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I wonder the same thing :/
"He is a cancer in the club house." is the sports cliche to explain why somebody good is not kept on the team. Often because they complain about the owner they play for who doesn't care about winning.
That does not apply to Kaepernick, he sucks actually.
Beats the stew out of me. I dropped him down in that list. I suspect they were considering what a greatly diminished Elway did with the right team and coaching at the end. But I'm not sure you could have coached him into that play absent the diminishing.
Here's the list again, with theirs on the left and mine on the right. How would you rank them?
1. Brady------Montana
2. Peyton----Brady
3. Montana--Peyton
4. Elway-----Young
5. Rodgers--Marino
6. Favre------Rodgers
T Marino-----Brees
8. Young-----Elway
9. Brees-----Favre
10. Fouts---Fouts
Everyone on the list won a Super Bowl except for Marino and Fouts.
View attachment 25872
Bradshaw has as many Super Bowl rings as Favre, Marino, Rodgers, Young, Brees, and Fouts COMBINED.
Bradshaw has as many Super Bowl rings as Peyton Manning and John Elway COMBINED.
But Tom Brady is still the best !!
I think he has as many interceptions as all those combined also though.
Maybe not Elway and Favre. :think:
Correct.
Yet only a Steelers fan would compare him to any of those.
Same answer.
Why? A big game player to be sure. On the whole though? Let's compare him to the weakest on that list.
Career Stats
Terry - Fouts:
Cmp% 51.9 - 58.8
TD% 5.4 - 4.5
Int% 5.4 - 4.3
Rtng: 70.9 - 80.2
Judged by their performance Dan is the better choice. Judged by their team? Different story. If we only judge by the SB performance then he makes it in. But then, so do Plunkett, Simms, Aikman, and the sure fire HOFer, Jake Delohomme.
So then...
Brees, their second weakest:
Terry - Brees
Cmp% 51.9 - 66.6
TD% 5.4 - 5.3
Int% 5.4 - 2.5
Rtng 70.9 - 96.3
How about my second weakest?
Terry - Favre
Cmp% 51.9 - 62
TD% 5.4 - 5.0
Int% 5.4 - 3.3
Rtng 70.9 - 86
Terry really looks a lot like more like Tebow than Montana.
Tebow
Cmp% 47.9
TD% 4.7
Int% 2.5
Rtng 75.3
Yes...he was great in the big games.
What's more important, a great game in September, or a great game in January?
Bradshaw's Super Bowl ratings:
Super Bowl IX - 108.0
Super Bowl X - 122.5
Super Bowl XIII - 119.2
Super Bowl XIV - 101.9
Now let's look at Elway's Super Bowl ratings:
Super Bowl XXI - 83.6
Super Bowl XXII - 36.8
Super Bowl XXIV - 19.4
Super Bowl XXXII - 51.9
Super Bowl XXXIII - 99.2
Tom Brady has played in seven Super Bowls, and only has three games over 100.0, and his highest (110.2) is lower than two of Bradshaw's.
In Peyton Manning's four Super Bowls, his highest rating was 88.5. He had 56.5 in one of them.
Only Joe Montana was better than Bradshaw in Super Bowls. However, Bradshaw was better than everyone else on your list in Super Bowls.
Elway's 2 best years were at the end when he could not go any more. At his level any way. So yes. His numbers are down right mediocre. It is why players like Robin Yount are not discussed when talking about GOATs. They played a long time. And Yount was statistically better at hitting than Elway at passing. He hit .285 for his career. Elways' efficiency rating is 78 for his career. I love the guy. He is like Bo Jackson in a passing offense where they don't hand him the ball.
I'll give it some thought. Based on numbers and having watched them play.
How good you are shouldn't be determined by isolating on four games. Even if those four were your best effort and on the biggest stage. It should matter, but it can't matter more than everything else or we should just keep stats on SBs and, again, Jake Delhomme is in the Hall.
9 passes for 96 yds and 1 TD, 0 ints and a 64% pass comp. The rating is great, but he didn't do much to get it. Maybe there should be a minimum number of passes attempted.
9 of 19 and a completion under 50%. 209 yds abd 2 TDs in that one though. So he had a couple of big connections while largely not throwing the ball where it should be. Those home runs brought up his average. It's also what we tend to remember about him.
A great game. Over 300 yds, 4 TD to only 1 Int and he aired it out 30 times. His accuracy was still suspect (56.6% comp%) but he got it done.
His most accurate big game, over 66% comp and just over 300 yds. But he also threw more picks than tds in that game, with 3 Ints against 2 tds.
Over 300 yds, 1 td to 1 int and a pass comp of 59%. An okay performance.
Horrible game. He was moving the ball down field a little (257 yds) but couldn't get it in the end zone. They sat on his routes and picked his bones.
Same scenario except he wasn't even moving the ball. That Niner defense ate him alive.
He wasn't an asset in that one. 0 tds against a pick. Little yardage. That one is one reason his RB belonged in the HOF. Now they don't get to that game without Elway, who had a really good game against your Steelers to make it.
Terrific game. Moved the ball well and gave it to his backs to punch the thing in close. Ran for a td. Nice way to go out.
Brady's first ring was a lot like Bradshaws first. A team gimme as Tom barely threw over a hundred yards. His reputation gets some cumulative weight it doesn't deserve on the strength of team play and his HOF kicker. But what Brady grew into later is undeniable.
Seattle? He throws into the teeth of one of the best all around defenses I've seen against the pass. 328 yds, 4 td against 2 ints and a 74% comp in route to a 100+ rating.
The low number coming in his last season, when the wheels had fallen off. And he still managed to rally the team, beating Tom Brady's Pats to get there, throwing 2 tds against 0 picks. Remarkable really.
Joe was and is the greatest to play the position. His lowest SB rating was higher than most people's best.
Again, the list isn't greatest play in SBs, supra. And Bradshaw got a couple of bounces, as did Brady.
Now if you look at playoff performance summed, forget the regular season and go for averages on the strength of playing in elimination games against the best teams to see whose game translated best it looks like this:
1. Montana, 102.8
2. Brees, 100.7
3. Rodgers, 99.4
4. Brady, 89
5. Peyton, 87.4
6. Favre, 86.3
7. Young, 85.8
8. Bradshaw, 83
9. Elway, 79.7
X. Marino, 77.1
Fouts, 70 falls out of 10th and your boy cracks into the top ten.
Would other modern qbs who've won SBs do well in this approach, say with a minimum of 10 playoff games under their belt?
Warner, 102.8
Wilson, 94.1
Flacco, 88.6
Aikman, 88.3
Eli, 87.4
Ben, 84.3
Adjusted list:
1. Montana/Warner, 102.8
3. Brees, 100.7
4. Rodgers, 99.4
5. Wilson, 94.1
6. Brady, 89.0
7. Flacco, 88.6
8. Aikman, 88.3
9., Peyton/Eli, 87.4
If you take out Peyton's couple after his body broke (and counting the SB against Seattle where we saw it) he jumps up the list significanty (89.4) passing Brady for 6th)
1. Montana, 102.8
2. Brees, 100.7
3. Rodgers, 99.4
4. Brady, 89
5. Peyton, 87.4
6. Favre, 86.3
7. Young, 85.8
8. Bradshaw, 83
9. Elway, 79.7
X. Marino, 77.1
Fouts, 70 falls out of 10th and your boy cracks into the top ten.
Would other modern qbs who've won SBs do well in this approach, say with a minimum of 10 playoff games under their belt?
Warner, 102.8
Wilson, 94.1
Flacco, 88.6
Aikman, 88.3
Eli, 87.4
Ben, 84.3
Adjusted list:
1. Montana/Warner, 102.8
3. Brees, 100.7
4. Rodgers, 99.4
5. Wilson, 94.1
6. Brady, 89.0
7. Flacco, 88.6
8. Aikman, 88.3
9., Peyton/Eli, 87.4
If you take out Peyton's couple after his body broke (and counting the SB against Seattle where we saw it) he jumps up the list significanty (89.4) passing Brady for 6th)
It's about time Bradshaw got some respect. :chuckle:
Montana was the best ever. The above list with him #1 is yet another reason why he was the best.
However, in Montana's 23 postseason games, his highest rating was 147.6...not enough to crack the Postseason Top 10
In Bradshaw's 19 postseason games, he had a rating of 158.3 in a 1976 game against the 11-3 Colts. Good enough for #1 all-time.
Top 10 single game highest QB rating in postseason NFL history:
158.3 - Terry Bradshaw, Peyton Manning, Don Meredith
155.8 - Jim Plunkett
154.1 - Kurt Warner
153.8 - David Woodley
152.2 - Mark Rypien
152.1 - Charlie Conerly (1956)
150.9 - Phil Simms (Super Bowl record)
150.8 - Jeff Hostetler
I don't understand why the QB rating is capped at 158.3
If a QB goes 40 for 40, with 500 yards, and 7 TD's...he get's a 158.3 rating, which is the same rating a QB gets for going 14 of 18, 264 yards, and 3 TD's.
How does that make sense?
If a QB goes 40 for 40, with 500 yards, and 7 TD's...he get's a 158.3 rating, which is the same rating a QB gets for going 14 of 18, 264 yards, and 3 TD's.
How does that make sense?
I still don't understand the 158.3 cap.
In 2013 Nick Foles was 22 of 28, 406 yards, and 7 TD's.
How is Foles' stats not better than: 14 of 18, 264 yards, and 3 TD's ?
Yet both QB's got a 158.3 rating.
In 2013 Nick Foles was 22 of 28, 406 yards, and 7 TD's.
How is Foles' stats not better than: 14 of 18, 264 yards, and 3 TD's ?
Yet both QB's got a 158.3 rating.
BTW, Peyton Manning is the most recent QB to achieve a 0.0 QB rating.
He did it on November 15, 2015 against the Chiefs. Manning was 5 for 20, 35 yards, 0 TD's, and 4 INT's.
He did it on November 15, 2015 against the Chiefs. Manning was 5 for 20, 35 yards, 0 TD's, and 4 INT's.
But Tom Brady has probably plyed in twice as many post season games than the other jokers
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