Newb......still not sure about this place.

[Town Heretic]

this is not true
I have shown how republicans give us conservative judges who will not find laws against abortion to be unconstitutional

No, you've declared it. And when people point out that a Republican stacked court gave us Roe you blame...the Democrats.

and
I have shown how democrats block conservative judges to keep abortion legal

Like I keep saying, the party doesn't make the notion. You want to change people you change people. Wasting time trying to destroy a party that attracts a wide variety of people on a wide variety of issues is a waste of time and focus. Change those who need to be influenced on the issue. That's the way you win the field.

town heretic actually voted for someone who supported killing of a baby born alive during a partial birth abortion procedure

And Chrys actually voted for someone who thinks its all right to kill a fetus so long as the origin of that pregnancy is criminal in nature.

But I don't really think Chrys is in favor of that notion or that he voted for McCain because he agrees with him on that point so I don't call Chrys a baby killer or some similar likened expression of less than objective, rational or honest evaluation.

:e4e:

 

[some other dude]

McCain: "Life begins at conception"

Obama: "I want to keep abortion freely available"



Retarded progressive lawyer: "Ooh look! A shiny black man for president!"

 

[PureX]

I was told to join by a friend, he kinda talked me into it, as I post on other sites. I've looked through the boards a bit and have to say that I don't like some of the name calling here, but it does appear there is some intelligent people, so I'll give it a shot.

I'm a pannandeist....at least that's the closest definition to my belief structure. Wikipedia exists so if you don't know what that is, feel free to check it out. Was raised protestant Christian, lost my faith around 13 and really haven't looked back. Christianity, predominantly the divinity of Christ and the miracles never spoke to me. The theory of the universe god does, god (or energy force) existing in a timeless infinitesimally small point, void of matter, only pure energy, then erupting into existence inventing time/space/matter. That speaks to me. I don't pretend to define god, as I don't believe a definition can be found, but I am happy, and I am very grateful for existing. I respect those who believe differently. But I do have issues with people who are closed minded and disrespectful towards others beliefs...don't pass judgement on my morality or my well being with the creator because of my belief structures.....there are righteous and terrible people claiming to be of all faiths or lack of faiths, realize that.

I like science, physics, cosmology, ect... I'm no PHD, so my knowledge is predominantly from journals and articles, I unfortunately don't have knowledge of the math behind it....also quite into history, predominantly American history and my belief structure is very in line with enlightenment thinkers.....no matter how many times I have to hear this nation was founded on Christian principals doesn't make the founding fathers any less deist, theist, agnostic, or atheist, there were almost no orthodox Christians in the whole bunch.

I'm also a centrist in political beliefs. I don't really buy into either ideology completely, I am very conservative on some issues, and liberal on others, but right now since the Dems are more centered, I'll call myself left of center. I also think that the situation, be it economic or social, effects what the right actions are, be it from conservative/libertarian or liberal/progressive thought processes.

Obviously, you are one of those people who thinks for themselves, and so makes up their own mind. I hope you have a thick skin. That attitude will get you pilloried around here. But it's a good kind of pain, honest! And anyway, insults are like cockroaches, after a while you learn to close your eyes for a few seconds after you turn on the light. It gives the little btds time to scurry away.

 

[Town Heretic]

McCain: "Life begins at conception"

You omitted, "But right doesn't if I find the manner of conception offensive." Or, when it begins only matters within the context of when right attaches and protection follows. McCain believed he had the right to set that line relatively.

Obama: "I want to keep abortion freely available"

Sadly the case.

But the distinction is one of degree and not principle if you vote that office on the issue and until a working majority of Congress reflects an even more significant shift in the public passion no president will make a difference in the end game of defeating Roe.

Retarded progressive lawyer: "Ooh look! A shiny black man for president!"

The only thing you managed to get right there was "lawyer"...so that's some progress, I suppose.

 

[some other dude]

You omitted, "But right doesn't if I find the manner of conception offensive."

I'm sorry Town. It's time you learn that the lawyerly talk marginalizes you. Unless you can post in conversational English, I'm not going to consider what you have to say.


Bottom line? Town voted for the biggest pro-abort candidate that was running. And supports him still.

 

[Town Heretic]

I'm sorry Town. It's time you learn that the lawyerly talk marginalizes you.

There wasn't a single term of art in the quote. And I'd already spelled that out responding to Chrys, where you stepped in. McCain believed in abortion where the method of impregnating the mother violated law. Take rape, by way of example. Many people agree with that stance, but you can't hold that position and argue that your disagreement with the President is on the pro life principle if you're one of them.

Unless you can post in conversational English, I'm not going to consider what you have to say.

I do exactly that very thing. So do/don't. I'm not apologizing for my education or vocabulary.

Bottom line? Town voted for the biggest pro-abort candidate that was running.

By degree? Without question. But I don't vote one issue, especially when the fellow I'm voting for won't actually decide it.

And supports him still.

In the same sense I supported Bush or any president once in office. I was actually pulling for Huntsman this time around. You'd know that but you were on vacation when much of that conversation was going on.

 

[Sherman]

....And the squabbling begins. Stick around. It's a fun read to say the least. :chuckle:

 

[some other dude]

No IK, I'm not going to get sucked into another squabble-fest to feed Town's ego. He knows the despicable vermin he is, and he has to live with it.

Oh, he can pretend Obama doesn't have any influence on abortion policy, but the blood of those babies who would not have been aborted during a McCain presidency is on his hands.

 

[Town Heretic]

No IK, I'm not going to get sucked into another squabble-fest to feed Town's ego. He knows the despicable vermin he is, and he has to live with it.

So that's a "no rational counter so let me bring out the name calling rant" then. Figures.

Oh, he can pretend Obama doesn't have any influence on abortion policy, but the blood of those babies who would not have been aborted during a McCain presidency is on his hands.

I've answered this specious charge prior and every President since Roe has had blood on his hands, as did every Republican or Democrat who voted them in, following your curiously myopic moral outrage.


:e4e:

 

[chrysostom]

Oh, he can pretend Obama doesn't have any influence on abortion policy, but the blood of those babies who would not have been aborted during a McCain presidency is on his hands.

what about the judges he put on the supreme court?

they are young enough to kill a whole lot of babies
and
it is my job to point that out to you

 

[some other dude]

Just so it's clear PananThe, this what we're talking about and what Town likes to pretend he has no responsibility in:

 

[some other dude]

what about the judges he put on the supreme court?

they are young enough to kill a whole lot of babies
and
it is my job to point that out to you

Town doesn't care. He's a progressive.

 

[chrysostom]

Town doesn't care. He's a progressive.

do you?

 

[some other dude]

I do

 

[Town Heretic]

what about the judges he put on the supreme court?

they are young enough to kill a whole lot of babies
and
it is my job to point that out to you

The Court has already ruled, as I pointed out to you in the post you couldn't answer on points. The issue won't be reversed there. And your "destroy the Democratic party" methodology is hopeless for the reason offered in that same response. You know, the one where I inferentially noted the galling hypocrisy of your calling others baby killers based on your own principle.

That post. lain:

 

[PananThe]

Ah, the late term abortion picture. That is just wonderful.

I guess I could show the death penalty electrocution photos to illicit an emotional response.....not that I am anti-death penalty.

Abortion is a funny issue, one I don't personally like to discuss all that much. Christians get so up in arms, even though there is some pretty significant OT statements and Jewish law that would say that aborting a baby is completely okay, or at least is not the death of a human, and that a soul does not enter the body until the first breath.

Jewish law of mourning: "Jewish law is quite clear in its statement that an embryo is not reckoned a viable living thing (in Hebrew, bar kayama) until thirty days after its birth. One is not allowed to observe the Laws of Mourning for an expelled fetus. As a matter of fact, these Laws are not applicable for a child who does not survive until his thirtieth day."

Exodus 21:22-23: If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury [i.e., to the mother], the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury [i.e., to the mother], you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot

Genesis 2:7 Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.

I also don't think there are many people out there who back late term abortions, maybe some pro-choice advocates that are so afraid that any movement of the law jeopardizes the entirety of it. I also find it frustrating that people can't find a difference in aborting a fetus that is not at a stage of development able to support it's own life, and an abortion of a fetus that could survive "extraction". One is extinguishing a self sustaining life, the other is extinguishing a possible life, one that cannot live on it's own. After having a child, whom I love, I have to say that I've went from being on the fence to pro-choice. A child needs love, needs support, needs to be wanted. If they are lacking these things they will likely be messed up. We have prisons full of people born from crackhead mothers and dead beat fathers, that would have left the world in a better place had they been aborted.

There are a lot of moral issues for people that we don't have to argue if they are "alive" or have souls, it's ironic that modern Christians are so obsessed with this issue, instead of the greed of our culture, the lack of charity, and extreme pride our culture poses.....you rarely hear evangelical Christians railing against these issues. It's especially irononic that Christians who are so against abortion also seem to be just as into electing officials who want to take any aid away from the child they so dearly want to save

"SAVE THE UNBORN CHILDREN......BUT MAKE SURE I DON'T HAVE TO PAY A PENNY TO HELP IT LIVE ONCE IT'S BORN, THAT IS THE JEZEBEL'S PROBLEM.....MY MONEY IS NO ONE'S BUT MINE!!!!"

 

[Town Heretic]

Ah, the late term abortion picture. That is just wonderful.

I guess I could show the death penalty electrocution photos to illicit an emotional response.....not that I am anti-death penalty.

I am and both my objection to abortion and the death penalty are secular in nature, though I do have a religious opinion that is satisfied by either posit. Maybe we'll mull those over one of these days.

:e4e:

 

[some other dude]

Abortion is a funny issue...

Not really. Not if you value the innocent.

 

[Cleekster]

Hi, Pan....Welcome from a fellow Deist

 

[iH82BdatHERETIC...]

Was raised protestant Christian, lost my faith around 13 and really haven't looked back. Christianity, predominantly the divinity of Christ and the miracles never spoke to me. The theory of the universe god does, god (or energy force) existing in a timeless infinitesimally small point, void of matter, only pure energy, then erupting into existence inventing time/space/matter. That speaks to me. I don't pretend to define god, as I don't believe a definition can be found, but I am happy, and I am very grateful for existing.

Perhaps you may be in a better condition than most, provided you keep an open mind and that having religion imposed on you hasn't ruined the concept of a relational God for you forever. Welcome, hope we can discuss this concept further.

I respect those who believe differently. But I do have issues with people who are closed minded and disrespectful towards others beliefs...don't pass judgement on my morality or my well being with the creator because of my belief structures.....there are righteous and terrible people claiming to be of all faiths or lack of faiths, realize that.

I like science, physics, cosmology, ect... I'm no PHD, so my knowledge is predominantly from journals and articles, I unfortunately don't have knowledge of the math behind it....also quite into history, predominantly American history and my belief structure is very in line with enlightenment thinkers.....no matter how many times I have to hear this nation was founded on Christian principals doesn't make the founding fathers any less deist, theist, agnostic, or atheist, there were almost no orthodox Christians in the whole bunch.

Which is why one non-Christian in particular introduced beginning meetings with prayer? Just saying, both secular and religious education systems are biased to each other.

I'm also a centrist in political beliefs. I don't really buy into either ideology completely, I am very conservative on some issues, and liberal on others, but right now since the Dems are more centered, I'll call myself left of center. I also think that the situation, be it economic or social, effects what the right actions are, be it from conservative/libertarian or liberal/progressive thought processes.

Such terms, conservative or liberal, right or left, are manipulative. These two parties have been two ends of the same see-saw for way too long, in fact, they are dependant on the other party for their survival, hence without one, no one with any remaining mental capability would vote for the other. And for clarification, do you belive there are no absolute principles, or are you speaking from the standpoint of a moral delima? So if I'm saying anything at all, I'm saying "welcome here."