Agape4Robin
Member
This was taken from the Two Gay Cowboys thread. Beanie began to question the necessity of the portrayal of the crucifixion of Christ as depicted in "the Passion". Since that had nothing to do with 2 gay cowboys, I decided to open a new thread to discuss that here.
Quote:
Luk 22:15And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer;
Suffer: to endure death, pain, or distress.
Luk 22:63And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote [him].
Jhn 18:22And when he had thus spoken, one of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand, saying, Answerest thou the high priest so?
And the beating began. But not only did they beat Him, they mocked Him. But let's go back for a moment.....
Luk 22:52Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
Jhn 18:3Judas then, having received a band [of men] and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
When they came to take Him, they brought weapons. Swords and wooden staffs. It wasn't exactly a peaceful confrontation.
Luk 23:11And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked [him], and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate.
Royal soldiers began to treat Him with utter contempt. You can be assured that He was not handled daintily. Then came the brutality of which "The Passion" painfully accounts with pretty accurate detail. Details you would miss if you weren't a student of the Bible. Which most people are not.
Jhn 19:1Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged [him].
Scourge (Noun and Verb)
A-1NounStrong's Number: 5416Greek: phragellion
"a whip" (from Latin, flagellum), is used of the "scourge" of small cords which the Lord made and employed before cleansing the Temple, Jhn 2:15. However He actually used it, the whip was in itself a sign of authority and judgment.
B-1VerbStrong's Number: 5417Greek: phragelloo
(akin to A: Latin, flagello; Eng., "flagellate"), is the word used in Mat 27:26; Mar 15:15, of the "scourging" endured by Christ and administered by the order of Pilate. Under the Roman method of "scourging," the person was stripped and tied in a bending posture to a pillar, or stretched on a frame. The "scourge" was made of leather thongs, weighted with sharp pieces of bone or lead, which tore the flesh of both the back and the breast (cp. Psa 22:17). Eusebius (Chron.) records his having witnessed the suffering of martyrs who died under this treatment. Note: In Jhn 19:1 the "scourging" of Christ is described by Verb No. 2, as also in His prophecy of His sufferings, Mat 20:19; Mar 10:34; Luk 18:33. In Act 22:25 the similar punishment about to be administered to Paul is described by Verb No. 3 (the "scourging" of Roman citizens was prohibited by the Porcian law of 197, B.C.).
Now Pilate, in an attempt to appease the mob, has Jesus scourged. This was not ordinarily part of a crucifixion. And there was a difference between Jewish and Roman law in regard to it. Under Jewish law, scourging was limited to 40 lashes. The Jews were so intent that the law be upheld, the beating often was stopped at 39 lashes to be sure that a miscount had not taken place. Roman law knew no such limitations. The prisoner was beaten to the verge of death as measured by a rapidly increasing, thready pulse and/or a shallow, irregular respiratory rate.
Then they did this to a beaten, bloody and barely recognizeable Jesus...........
Jhn 19:2And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put [it] on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,
Mar 15:19And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing [their] knees worshipped him.
The crown of thorns, in the form of a circlet, now was pressed deeply into His scalp by the soldiers. This resulted in additional arterial bleeding which added to the extreme reduction and contraction of His total vascular space, thereby deepening His state of shock. Pilate now succumbs to the manipulation by Jewish leaders, and Jesus is condemned to death by crucifixion. The purple robe is stripped away and Jesus is given the cross to bear to the place of the skull, Golgotha. The rough removal of His garments would be similar to the careless removal of a surgical dressing, causing the wounds to bleed freely once more.
And then the crucifixion. It is interesting that the gospel writers simply indicate that Jesus was taken to the place of the skull and there crucified. We are left with no further information other than that which can be deduced from the writings of Roman and Jewish historians. This was such a common practice that no elaboration was necessary. However, since you obviously do not understand the gravity of the crucifixion accounts in the bible, here is a detailed description of what it was like to be crucified.
As Jesus arrived at the execution site, the beam or cross was thrown upon the ground and Jesus was roughly thrown backwards onto it. His arms were extended to a pre-selected position. The executioners would be careful not to draw his arms to a fully extended position, for that would hasten His death.
Large triangular construction-grade nails then would be used to secure Jesus to the cross. The Bible states that these were driven through His hands. Many authorities believe that they were driven through the lower portion of his forearm near the wrist. There they would compress the median nerve trunks to the hand. These nerve trunks then would impinge on the tendons of the palm causing the thumbs to bend toward the palm.
It is interesting to note the Latin word for hand, manus, also is used by such early writers as Virgil and Josephus to designate the part of the wrist which joins the hand. If, indeed, the nails were driven through His hands, as the Bible says, it is not clear how this kept Him suspended, for a nail through the center palm would tear through it.
Next, with the nails in place, Jesus would be literally hoisted upright. His feet would be secured with a single nail--the left foot extended slightly over the right with the knees flexed, and the nail driven through the arches of the feet.
The Romans had perfected this brutal art to where the length of time required for the condemned person to die could be computed by how much flexion was left in the knees to expedite breathing. His position on the cross forced a condemned person into a horribly cruel exercise. In order to breathe and to relieve the pain in the arms as the body sagged downward, he would have to push up on the nail in the feet forcing an up and down slithering motion upon the cross until he expired.
Dangling by the arms in this position would result in severe muscular pain in the upper extremities. It also would cause a progressive pain from joint separation. Continual hanging by the arms would gradually result in paralyzation of the intercostal muscles of the thoracic wall. As a result, air could be drawn into the lungs easily but could not be exhaled. As carbon dioxide accumulated, progressive degrees of asphyxiation would occur. Accumulated carbon dioxide and lactic acid would create an intense muscular hyperexcitability and violent tetanic muscle spasm throughout the body.
As the suffering sensation became overwhelming, the condemned man would be compelled to push up on the nail in his feet to gasp for breath. It is undoubtedly in this position that Jesus uttered His famous seven last words. It is indeed amazing, as Jesus physical body was ravaged by shock, exhaustion, incredible thirst, central nervous system pain, stimulation beyond our comprehension, and gradual asphyxiation, that no reviling or words of condemnation were uttered by Him. Rather, He expressed concern for those about Him.
As the crucifixion continued, the chest wall would further elongate and become grossly distorted. The stomach area would sink. The altered hemodynamics of the thoracic cavity would result in a progressive effusion of fluid into the pericardial sack, creating a searing, sharp, pleuritic type pain with each heartbeat and each attempted movement on the cross. (printed with thanks from wwjd)
You see, beanieboy, when reading the bible, you do not comprehend it's meaning. You read it like a novel or some mythological text. Your eyes are spiritually dimmed and the wisdom of God is foolishness to you.
You don't know what you are talking about. Stick to bootyism....it's all you apparently know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanieboy
My point is - one goes to WATCH JESUS BE CRUCIFIED.
And in The Passion - people watch to see Jesus whipped and beaten for a 1/4 of the movie.
But, if you look at the bible - is Jesus beaten and tortured graphically for 1/4 of Mathew, Mark, Luke or John? And if not, why make a movie that focuses on it? And if it isn't focused in the Bible, why go to a movie that does? Why would anyone want a graphic depiction of the torture of their Savior?
I understand the recounting of the sacrifice, but not gruesome detail. The ripping of flesh, that even some movie goers said was too much to bear, was there for no religious reason, but for sensationalism, unless you somehow believe that despite giving his life, Jesus also had to suffer. And in that case, I suggest that the next movie be a combination between maybe Wolf Creek and the Robe.
Luk 22:15And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer;
Suffer: to endure death, pain, or distress.
Luk 22:63And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote [him].
Jhn 18:22And when he had thus spoken, one of the officers which stood by struck Jesus with the palm of his hand, saying, Answerest thou the high priest so?
And the beating began. But not only did they beat Him, they mocked Him. But let's go back for a moment.....
Luk 22:52Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
Jhn 18:3Judas then, having received a band [of men] and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
When they came to take Him, they brought weapons. Swords and wooden staffs. It wasn't exactly a peaceful confrontation.
Luk 23:11And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked [him], and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate.
Royal soldiers began to treat Him with utter contempt. You can be assured that He was not handled daintily. Then came the brutality of which "The Passion" painfully accounts with pretty accurate detail. Details you would miss if you weren't a student of the Bible. Which most people are not.
Jhn 19:1Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged [him].
Scourge (Noun and Verb)
A-1NounStrong's Number: 5416Greek: phragellion
"a whip" (from Latin, flagellum), is used of the "scourge" of small cords which the Lord made and employed before cleansing the Temple, Jhn 2:15. However He actually used it, the whip was in itself a sign of authority and judgment.
B-1VerbStrong's Number: 5417Greek: phragelloo
(akin to A: Latin, flagello; Eng., "flagellate"), is the word used in Mat 27:26; Mar 15:15, of the "scourging" endured by Christ and administered by the order of Pilate. Under the Roman method of "scourging," the person was stripped and tied in a bending posture to a pillar, or stretched on a frame. The "scourge" was made of leather thongs, weighted with sharp pieces of bone or lead, which tore the flesh of both the back and the breast (cp. Psa 22:17). Eusebius (Chron.) records his having witnessed the suffering of martyrs who died under this treatment. Note: In Jhn 19:1 the "scourging" of Christ is described by Verb No. 2, as also in His prophecy of His sufferings, Mat 20:19; Mar 10:34; Luk 18:33. In Act 22:25 the similar punishment about to be administered to Paul is described by Verb No. 3 (the "scourging" of Roman citizens was prohibited by the Porcian law of 197, B.C.).
Now Pilate, in an attempt to appease the mob, has Jesus scourged. This was not ordinarily part of a crucifixion. And there was a difference between Jewish and Roman law in regard to it. Under Jewish law, scourging was limited to 40 lashes. The Jews were so intent that the law be upheld, the beating often was stopped at 39 lashes to be sure that a miscount had not taken place. Roman law knew no such limitations. The prisoner was beaten to the verge of death as measured by a rapidly increasing, thready pulse and/or a shallow, irregular respiratory rate.
Then they did this to a beaten, bloody and barely recognizeable Jesus...........
Jhn 19:2And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put [it] on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,
Mar 15:19And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing [their] knees worshipped him.
The crown of thorns, in the form of a circlet, now was pressed deeply into His scalp by the soldiers. This resulted in additional arterial bleeding which added to the extreme reduction and contraction of His total vascular space, thereby deepening His state of shock. Pilate now succumbs to the manipulation by Jewish leaders, and Jesus is condemned to death by crucifixion. The purple robe is stripped away and Jesus is given the cross to bear to the place of the skull, Golgotha. The rough removal of His garments would be similar to the careless removal of a surgical dressing, causing the wounds to bleed freely once more.
And then the crucifixion. It is interesting that the gospel writers simply indicate that Jesus was taken to the place of the skull and there crucified. We are left with no further information other than that which can be deduced from the writings of Roman and Jewish historians. This was such a common practice that no elaboration was necessary. However, since you obviously do not understand the gravity of the crucifixion accounts in the bible, here is a detailed description of what it was like to be crucified.
As Jesus arrived at the execution site, the beam or cross was thrown upon the ground and Jesus was roughly thrown backwards onto it. His arms were extended to a pre-selected position. The executioners would be careful not to draw his arms to a fully extended position, for that would hasten His death.
Large triangular construction-grade nails then would be used to secure Jesus to the cross. The Bible states that these were driven through His hands. Many authorities believe that they were driven through the lower portion of his forearm near the wrist. There they would compress the median nerve trunks to the hand. These nerve trunks then would impinge on the tendons of the palm causing the thumbs to bend toward the palm.
It is interesting to note the Latin word for hand, manus, also is used by such early writers as Virgil and Josephus to designate the part of the wrist which joins the hand. If, indeed, the nails were driven through His hands, as the Bible says, it is not clear how this kept Him suspended, for a nail through the center palm would tear through it.
Next, with the nails in place, Jesus would be literally hoisted upright. His feet would be secured with a single nail--the left foot extended slightly over the right with the knees flexed, and the nail driven through the arches of the feet.
The Romans had perfected this brutal art to where the length of time required for the condemned person to die could be computed by how much flexion was left in the knees to expedite breathing. His position on the cross forced a condemned person into a horribly cruel exercise. In order to breathe and to relieve the pain in the arms as the body sagged downward, he would have to push up on the nail in the feet forcing an up and down slithering motion upon the cross until he expired.
Dangling by the arms in this position would result in severe muscular pain in the upper extremities. It also would cause a progressive pain from joint separation. Continual hanging by the arms would gradually result in paralyzation of the intercostal muscles of the thoracic wall. As a result, air could be drawn into the lungs easily but could not be exhaled. As carbon dioxide accumulated, progressive degrees of asphyxiation would occur. Accumulated carbon dioxide and lactic acid would create an intense muscular hyperexcitability and violent tetanic muscle spasm throughout the body.
As the suffering sensation became overwhelming, the condemned man would be compelled to push up on the nail in his feet to gasp for breath. It is undoubtedly in this position that Jesus uttered His famous seven last words. It is indeed amazing, as Jesus physical body was ravaged by shock, exhaustion, incredible thirst, central nervous system pain, stimulation beyond our comprehension, and gradual asphyxiation, that no reviling or words of condemnation were uttered by Him. Rather, He expressed concern for those about Him.
As the crucifixion continued, the chest wall would further elongate and become grossly distorted. The stomach area would sink. The altered hemodynamics of the thoracic cavity would result in a progressive effusion of fluid into the pericardial sack, creating a searing, sharp, pleuritic type pain with each heartbeat and each attempted movement on the cross. (printed with thanks from wwjd)
You see, beanieboy, when reading the bible, you do not comprehend it's meaning. You read it like a novel or some mythological text. Your eyes are spiritually dimmed and the wisdom of God is foolishness to you.
You don't know what you are talking about. Stick to bootyism....it's all you apparently know.