WizardofOz
New member
What is the significance of this statement in regards to the morality or legality of abortion?
Should abortion be legal? If so, when should it cease to be legal?
Murder, Abortion, and the Abortionist.
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
What is the significance of this statement in regards to the morality or legality of abortion?
Should abortion be legal? If so, when should it cease to be legal?
No.
Yes, but not all creatures have souls, and some have more complex (for lack of a better word) soul. But man is the only creature that has a spirit.
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...share_fid=4230&share_type=t&share_pid=5171529
beameup
New member
Show us in scripture where it says that all creatures have souls.
Show us in scripture where it says that man is the only creature with a spirit.
It should be criminal to intentionally take the life of any human being (born or unborn) unless convicted of a capital crime, and even then, only the government has the right to execute judgment on criminals. Unborn babies are literally incapable of committing any crime. Therefore taking the life of the unborn human would be murder.
God created man in His image and likeness, therefore taking the life of another human being who is innocent of any crime is wrong, but he also tells us to execute criminals who have committed crimes worthy of death. Yet we have decided that those commands are no longer relevant, and have therefore not only legalized murder, but have also regulated it, and even made it into a "legitimate" business.
jaybird
New member
i think this would only work for test tube babies. man, women and conception have nothing to do with soul and spirit.
life begins when the breath is given, life ends when the breath goes back the the Most High. the breath is the key to life.
WizardofOz
New member
Adam was also never in the womb so it's a bit of an outlier that shouldn't be used in the discussion of abortion
jaybird
New member
Ezekiel 37 9-10
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army...
Job 34 14-15
If he should set his heart to it and gather to himself his spirit and his breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust.
Isaiah 42:5
Thus says God, the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it:
9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord God; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army...
Job 34 14-15
If he should set his heart to it and gather to himself his spirit and his breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust.
Isaiah 42:5
Thus says God, the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it:
The Hebrew word nephesh is translated as "soul" nearly two thirds of the times it's used in the Bible, and it is used not only of man, but also of animals.
Yet the Bible clearly shows that man is not an animal, but above all animals. The Bible explicitly states that man has a spirit, but never says that animals have spirits.
Animals were given life, but only man was breathed into life directly by God. The Bible also says that God is spirit, and created man in his image and likeness (but not animals), and since God is triune, He created man with three parts, body, soul, and spirit, all reflective of His nature.
I find this article explains "soul vs spirit" rather well:
https://www.gotquestions.org/soul-spirit.html
And this one for the "souls" of animals:
https://www.gotquestions.org/pets-heaven.html
oatmeal
Well-known member
Abortion is not a decision to be taken lightly but I see no scripturayl evidence to conclude that it is murder
Plenty of Scriptural evidence that abortion is murder.
http://americanrtl.org/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion
The basic cycle of human life. When does life begin? ... and when is it OK to willfully end it?
Day 1: fertilization: all human chromosomes are present; unique human life begins.
Day 6: embryo begins implantation in the uterus.
Day 22: heart begins to beat with the child's own blood, often a different type than the mothers'.
Week 3: By the end of third week the child's backbone spinal column and nervous system are forming. The liver, kidneys and intestines begin to take shape.
Week 4: By the end of week four the child is ten thousand times larger than the fertilized egg.
Week 5: Eyes, legs, and hands begin to develop.
Week 6: Brain waves are detectable; mouth and lips are present; fingernails are forming.
Week 7: Eyelids, and toes form, nose distinct. The baby is kicking and swimming.
Week 8: Every organ is in place, bones begin to replace cartilage, and fingerprints begin to form. By the 8th week the baby can begin to hear.
Weeks 9 and 10: Teeth begin to form, fingernails develop. The baby can turn his head, and frown. The baby can hiccup.
Weeks 10 and 11: The baby can "breathe" amniotic fluid and urinate.
Week 11 the baby can grasp objects placed in its hand; all organ systems are functioning. The baby has a skeletal structure, nerves, and circulation.
Week 12: The baby has all of the parts necessary to experience pain, including nerves, spinal cord, and thalamus. Vocal cords are complete. The baby can suck its thumb.
Week 14: At this age, the heart pumps several quarts of blood through the body every day.
Week 15: The baby has an adult's taste buds.
Month 4: Bone Marrow is now beginning to form. The heart is pumping 25 quarts of blood a day. By the end of month 4 the baby will be 8-10 inches in length and will weigh up to half a pound.
Week 17: The baby can have dream (REM) sleep.
Week 19: Babies can routinely be saved at 21 to 22 weeks after fertilization, and sometimes they can be saved even younger.
Months 5 and 6: The baby practices breathing by inhaling amniotic fluid into its developing lungs. The baby will grasp at the umbilical cord when it feels it. Most mothers feel an increase in movement, kicking, and hiccups from the baby. Oil and sweat glands are now functioning. The baby is now twelve inches long or more, and weighs up to one and a half pounds.
Months 7 through 9: Eyeteeth are present. The baby opens and closes his eyes. The baby is using four of the five senses (vision, hearing, taste, and touch.) He knows the difference between waking and sleeping, and can relate to the moods of the mother. The baby's skin begins to thicken, and a layer of fat is produced and stored beneath the skin. Antibodies are built up, and the baby's heart begins to pump 300 gallons of blood per day. Approximately one week before the birth the baby stops growing, and "drops" usually head down into the pelvic cavity.
What is PREMEDITATED MURDER?
The term that is used to describe a murder that was planned in advance and was carried out willfully.
Are abortions planned? Yes are they carried out willfully ... mostly ... I suppose there are instances where there are "forced" abortions.
If a woman is pregnant ... and someone punches her in the womb ... she survives ... but the "whatever it is" doesn't "survive" is that murder of the "whatever it is" ? Regardless of it's stage of development? If not, then when?
Day 1: fertilization: all human chromosomes are present; unique human life begins.
Day 6: embryo begins implantation in the uterus.
Day 22: heart begins to beat with the child's own blood, often a different type than the mothers'.
Week 3: By the end of third week the child's backbone spinal column and nervous system are forming. The liver, kidneys and intestines begin to take shape.
Week 4: By the end of week four the child is ten thousand times larger than the fertilized egg.
Week 5: Eyes, legs, and hands begin to develop.
Week 6: Brain waves are detectable; mouth and lips are present; fingernails are forming.
Week 7: Eyelids, and toes form, nose distinct. The baby is kicking and swimming.
Week 8: Every organ is in place, bones begin to replace cartilage, and fingerprints begin to form. By the 8th week the baby can begin to hear.
Weeks 9 and 10: Teeth begin to form, fingernails develop. The baby can turn his head, and frown. The baby can hiccup.
Weeks 10 and 11: The baby can "breathe" amniotic fluid and urinate.
Week 11 the baby can grasp objects placed in its hand; all organ systems are functioning. The baby has a skeletal structure, nerves, and circulation.
Week 12: The baby has all of the parts necessary to experience pain, including nerves, spinal cord, and thalamus. Vocal cords are complete. The baby can suck its thumb.
Week 14: At this age, the heart pumps several quarts of blood through the body every day.
Week 15: The baby has an adult's taste buds.
Month 4: Bone Marrow is now beginning to form. The heart is pumping 25 quarts of blood a day. By the end of month 4 the baby will be 8-10 inches in length and will weigh up to half a pound.
Week 17: The baby can have dream (REM) sleep.
Week 19: Babies can routinely be saved at 21 to 22 weeks after fertilization, and sometimes they can be saved even younger.
Months 5 and 6: The baby practices breathing by inhaling amniotic fluid into its developing lungs. The baby will grasp at the umbilical cord when it feels it. Most mothers feel an increase in movement, kicking, and hiccups from the baby. Oil and sweat glands are now functioning. The baby is now twelve inches long or more, and weighs up to one and a half pounds.
Months 7 through 9: Eyeteeth are present. The baby opens and closes his eyes. The baby is using four of the five senses (vision, hearing, taste, and touch.) He knows the difference between waking and sleeping, and can relate to the moods of the mother. The baby's skin begins to thicken, and a layer of fat is produced and stored beneath the skin. Antibodies are built up, and the baby's heart begins to pump 300 gallons of blood per day. Approximately one week before the birth the baby stops growing, and "drops" usually head down into the pelvic cavity.
What is PREMEDITATED MURDER?
The term that is used to describe a murder that was planned in advance and was carried out willfully.
Are abortions planned? Yes are they carried out willfully ... mostly ... I suppose there are instances where there are "forced" abortions.
If a woman is pregnant ... and someone punches her in the womb ... she survives ... but the "whatever it is" doesn't "survive" is that murder of the "whatever it is" ? Regardless of it's stage of development? If not, then when?
Even if the mother does not want to have an abortion, it's still murder by those who perform the abortion.
“If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. - Exodus 21:22-25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus21:22-25&version=KJ21
Breathing on their own? So that would be week 10-11 in the womb?
Weeks 10 and 11: The baby can "breathe" amniotic fluid and urinate.
cycle of life:
Day 1: fertilization: all human chromosomes are present; unique human life begins.
Day 6: embryo begins implantation in the uterus.
Day 22: heart begins to beat with the child's own blood, often a different type than the mothers'.
Week 3: By the end of third week the child's backbone spinal column and nervous system are forming. The liver, kidneys and intestines begin to take shape.
Week 4: By the end of week four the child is ten thousand times larger than the fertilized egg.
Week 5: Eyes, legs, and hands begin to develop.
Week 6: Brain waves are detectable; mouth and lips are present; fingernails are forming.
Week 7: Eyelids, and toes form, nose distinct. The baby is kicking and swimming.
Week 8: Every organ is in place, bones begin to replace cartilage, and fingerprints begin to form. By the 8th week the baby can begin to hear.
Weeks 9 and 10: Teeth begin to form, fingernails develop. The baby can turn his head, and frown. The baby can hiccup.
Weeks 10 and 11: The baby can "breathe" amniotic fluid and urinate.
Week 11 the baby can grasp objects placed in its hand; all organ systems are functioning. The baby has a skeletal structure, nerves, and circulation.
Week 12: The baby has all of the parts necessary to experience pain, including nerves, spinal cord, and thalamus. Vocal cords are complete. The baby can suck its thumb.
Week 14: At this age, the heart pumps several quarts of blood through the body every day.
Week 15: The baby has an adult's taste buds.
Month 4: Bone Marrow is now beginning to form. The heart is pumping 25 quarts of blood a day. By the end of month 4 the baby will be 8-10 inches in length and will weigh up to half a pound.
Week 17: The baby can have dream (REM) sleep.
Week 19: Babies can routinely be saved at 21 to 22 weeks after fertilization, and sometimes they can be saved even younger.
Months 5 and 6: The baby practices breathing by inhaling amniotic fluid into its developing lungs. The baby will grasp at the umbilical cord when it feels it. Most mothers feel an increase in movement, kicking, and hiccups from the baby. Oil and sweat glands are now functioning. The baby is now twelve inches long or more, and weighs up to one and a half pounds.
Months 7 through 9: Eyeteeth are present. The baby opens and closes his eyes. The baby is using four of the five senses (vision, hearing, taste, and touch.) He knows the difference between waking and sleeping, and can relate to the moods of the mother. The baby's skin begins to thicken, and a layer of fat is produced and stored beneath the skin. Antibodies are built up, and the baby's heart begins to pump 300 gallons of blood per day. Approximately one week before the birth the baby stops growing, and "drops" usually head down into the pelvic cavity.
What is PREMEDITATED MURDER?
The term that is used to describe a murder that was planned in advance and was carried out willfully.
Are abortions planned? Yes are they carried out willfully ... mostly ... I suppose there are instances where there are "forced" abortions.
If a woman is pregnant ... and someone punches her in the womb ... she survives ... but the "whatever it is" doesn't "survive" is that murder of the "whatever it is" ? Regardless of it's stage of development? If not, then when?
Weeks 10 and 11: The baby can "breathe" amniotic fluid and urinate.
cycle of life:
Day 1: fertilization: all human chromosomes are present; unique human life begins.
Day 6: embryo begins implantation in the uterus.
Day 22: heart begins to beat with the child's own blood, often a different type than the mothers'.
Week 3: By the end of third week the child's backbone spinal column and nervous system are forming. The liver, kidneys and intestines begin to take shape.
Week 4: By the end of week four the child is ten thousand times larger than the fertilized egg.
Week 5: Eyes, legs, and hands begin to develop.
Week 6: Brain waves are detectable; mouth and lips are present; fingernails are forming.
Week 7: Eyelids, and toes form, nose distinct. The baby is kicking and swimming.
Week 8: Every organ is in place, bones begin to replace cartilage, and fingerprints begin to form. By the 8th week the baby can begin to hear.
Weeks 9 and 10: Teeth begin to form, fingernails develop. The baby can turn his head, and frown. The baby can hiccup.
Weeks 10 and 11: The baby can "breathe" amniotic fluid and urinate.
Week 11 the baby can grasp objects placed in its hand; all organ systems are functioning. The baby has a skeletal structure, nerves, and circulation.
Week 12: The baby has all of the parts necessary to experience pain, including nerves, spinal cord, and thalamus. Vocal cords are complete. The baby can suck its thumb.
Week 14: At this age, the heart pumps several quarts of blood through the body every day.
Week 15: The baby has an adult's taste buds.
Month 4: Bone Marrow is now beginning to form. The heart is pumping 25 quarts of blood a day. By the end of month 4 the baby will be 8-10 inches in length and will weigh up to half a pound.
Week 17: The baby can have dream (REM) sleep.
Week 19: Babies can routinely be saved at 21 to 22 weeks after fertilization, and sometimes they can be saved even younger.
Months 5 and 6: The baby practices breathing by inhaling amniotic fluid into its developing lungs. The baby will grasp at the umbilical cord when it feels it. Most mothers feel an increase in movement, kicking, and hiccups from the baby. Oil and sweat glands are now functioning. The baby is now twelve inches long or more, and weighs up to one and a half pounds.
Months 7 through 9: Eyeteeth are present. The baby opens and closes his eyes. The baby is using four of the five senses (vision, hearing, taste, and touch.) He knows the difference between waking and sleeping, and can relate to the moods of the mother. The baby's skin begins to thicken, and a layer of fat is produced and stored beneath the skin. Antibodies are built up, and the baby's heart begins to pump 300 gallons of blood per day. Approximately one week before the birth the baby stops growing, and "drops" usually head down into the pelvic cavity.
What is PREMEDITATED MURDER?
The term that is used to describe a murder that was planned in advance and was carried out willfully.
Are abortions planned? Yes are they carried out willfully ... mostly ... I suppose there are instances where there are "forced" abortions.
If a woman is pregnant ... and someone punches her in the womb ... she survives ... but the "whatever it is" doesn't "survive" is that murder of the "whatever it is" ? Regardless of it's stage of development? If not, then when?
Shalom.
Today is Sheni, 11-6.
It is wrong and it is the unnecessary taking of a life, a human life, which is murder.
Shalom.
Jacob
I answered this above.
Lon
Well-known member
▼▼▼
[brace addition mine]
Why do we know it is the child? Joshua 20:2-6 Because we already have instructions for a mother or another person, this is specifically about the pregnant mother. Exodus 21:12,13