Bear with me, I still don't know how to quote...
"Trying friend, and thanks for the blessing."
Anytime!
"I know a little bit more about this than you think. Sorry, I'm kind of shady about my background. As for humility, there's nothing humble about telling people that if they keep doing what feels natural to them they'll go flying off of a cliff, especially when that assertion is made without evidential support and is based solely on your own individual perspective. People can't change they way they perceive reality. You don't like someone telling you that you're wrong, so where's the humility in telling others what you wouldn't like to hear yourself?"
okay, indeed I see your point. I think it could be sharpened...but I get what you mean.
-First thing, I do like it when people tell me that I'm wrong. How else do I learn?
-My hypothetical cliff, I know it exists, I've seen people fall, I've heard their screams but I've never actually seen them hit the ground...so when I warn that next person who appears to be walking blindfolded I'll give them my best idea as to where they'll end up based on the evidence that I've been presented with. You're saying that for all I know they could be screaming as they land gently, face first, in a pile of weight loss inducing cupcakes. It just seems unlikely to me...
If witnessing serves the ego in anyway psychologically than thats just fine. Does it boost a teachers ego when her students get an A? Great, maybe you should feel proud. But personally, for me, its way more stressful than it is uplifting and I find myself praying for the boldness to say what needs to be said.
-An individual
can change the way they perceive reality. If not than the life of a missionary is futile and no one would do it.
-(if I knew how to quote this would be way more cogent)
If someone finds satisfaction in doing work for our creator that's fine by me anyway.
"Except that there's no way to conclusiviely demonstrate the existence of the cliff itself. It's your word against reality. It's your word against testable, demonstrable knowledge and there's nothing humble about telling someone that their ability to perceive reality is fundamentally flawed, especially when you cannot see through their eyes or think their thoughts."
-In the same way there is no conclusive way to demonstrate that the cliff does not exist. It isn't my word against reality, its my view of reality and the words that surface due to it.
-As Bob once said, there's nothing wrong with telling a fool, that they're a fool. I think this discussion is above the importance of humbleness...humble or not, telling an individual that the way they perceive reality is fundamentally flawed is correct. Sin has a way of distorting the truth. I don't expect you to make a concession here, its probably where we simply disagree...
"How can you not tell them with ego? You're attempting to show them the
flaw of their path without being able to feel their spirit or see through their eyes or think with their mind. You tell them that you have something that they don't and without it their path, their thoughts and the state of their soul will doom them without evidential support. This is the antithesis of humility and I think you have a lot to learn about people friend. It might explain your failures in witnessing and how you've alienated people you considered friends. The alienation/failure is a fall, what comes before a fall?"
I like this, how much do you charge per hour?
"Couldn't tell you. I don't spend much time sniffing elephants."
It's a very rewarding experience.
"But it always comes back to the sacrifice
you have made. Sacrifice nothing and you won't be a martyr and you won't be ignored and you won't have to rely on the rejection of others to purge yourself of your ego. That's your job, just as cleansing my ego is my job. I don't rely on anyone for the state of soul, just me.
But I could be wrong, you know the state of your own soul better than I."
This suffering is important though...picking up your cross daily. It just happens when you follow Christ. Peter wrote that we need to rejoice in participating in the suffering of Christ. But you may be on to something with the ego bit...I need to learn to approach the witness position from a more humble position. Thank you!
"There's nothing about god that you can be taught that you cannot learn on your own."
This is learning on my own. On my own I have requested guidance. How do we learn if we do not ask?
"The problem with this is that I do not recognize satan as an entity, but as a metaphor. If you want us to relate to one another we have to find common ground, and satan is not common ground, it's you monopolizing the debate with unprovable objects, such as satan and hell that serve to do nothing more than save you from that which you cannot explain outside of what the bible tells you to think."
I figured. Thats why I said "untruth" and
maybe Satan.
When I refer to this untruth I am merely speaking of anything spirit, demon, belief or otherwise that a person accepts with the willingness to perceive the world in a false manner to make they're existance more comfortable. In my case the truth is that Satan will attempt to confuse you with instant comfort and gratification whilst confusing your perspective.
As far as I'm concerned this is more of a discussion than a debate. But call it what you will.
It seems that the ego can confuse a willing individual, which may be my flaw in witnessing. I'll have to pray for help with this. Thanks for the help. How much do I owe ya?
I'm still looking for someone with an idea about my friends objections to Christ!
B