dreadknought
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:think: I'm going to find Scotch, maybe that'll help me understand your response.
Monday is Robert E. Lee day in Alabama.
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Lee's journal would only shed so much light, anyway. And he never did get around to writing his own account of the war, from what I recall, despite encouragement to do so.
Who'd want to relive that really? Especially from the wrong side of history...like asking Peyton when he was going to pen a tome about the playoffs.
lain: Or JaMarcus Russel's long awaited, Number One: Taken by a Draft...ghost written by Raider Nation. That sort of thing.
Who'd want to relive that really? Especially from the wrong side of history...like asking Peyton when he was going to pen a tome about the playoffs.
Or JaMarcus Russel's long awaited, Number One: Taken by a Draft...ghost written by Raider Nation. That sort of thing.
Well Jeff Davis wrote two volumes. Of course, he didn't exactly see combat.
he was too weak to do the right and honorable thing
he should have been hung as a traitor on april 10, 1865
Lee was the executor of his father-in-laws will, the will said he had to free all the slaves within 5 years. He also wound up with lands and debt. The slaves were upset because they thought they were supposed to be free when their master died and didn't know about the 5 year clause. Some ran away, Lee had them recaptured and whipped.
Lee strikes me as a microcosm of the South in this regard, he had to transition to a non slave economy but he couldn't figure it out. He certainly didn't free all his slaves right away.
I don't think the slaves would have been freed without a war, slaves were 30 to 50 percent of the population in some areas. The threat of reprisals after generations of torture, rape, and humiliation would insure that the slave owners wouldn't consider it.
Lee strikes me as a microcosm of the South in this regard, he had to transition to a non slave economy but he couldn't figure it out. He certainly didn't free all his slaves right away.
I don't think the slaves would have been freed without a war, slaves were 30 to 50 percent of the population in some areas. The threat of reprisals after generations of torture, rape, and humiliation would insure that the slave owners wouldn't consider it.
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A few quotes from Lee:
"I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than a dissolution of the Union. It would be an accumulation of all the evils we complain of, and I am willing to sacrifice everything but honour for its preservation."
"If the Union is dissolved and the Government disrupted, I shall return to my native State and share the miseries of my people, and, save in defense will draw my sword on none."
And in later reflection:
"So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained."
"We failed, but in the good providence of God apparent failure often proves a blessing."
I think that's about right.
"I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than a dissolution of the Union. It would be an accumulation of all the evils we complain of, and I am willing to sacrifice everything but honour for its preservation."
"If the Union is dissolved and the Government disrupted, I shall return to my native State and share the miseries of my people, and, save in defense will draw my sword on none."
And in later reflection:
"So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained."
"We failed, but in the good providence of God apparent failure often proves a blessing."
I think that's about right.
I think what needs to be understood is that society has only recently undergone the dramatic difference that it is today. Even just 150 years ago, race and religion were ruling factors of the world. That's just the way it was.
The thing to also take into consideration is that this isn't an observation of some other planet- it's ours, and more specifically, our fathers.
It doesn't really matter what we hold to today, respect for our ancestors is a humility showing that we wouldn't have been much different; that we can't take credit for where we stand today because it was a progression and not a declaration_
The thing to also take into consideration is that this isn't an observation of some other planet- it's ours, and more specifically, our fathers.
It doesn't really matter what we hold to today, respect for our ancestors is a humility showing that we wouldn't have been much different; that we can't take credit for where we stand today because it was a progression and not a declaration_
dreadknought
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I love the internet, I can quoute mine.... and be judge and jury.
Can you run a spell check?
lain:i suppose that counts as "honorable" in alabama :idunno:
'round here we call it something else
Yeah, TH...I can use wikiquote too.
In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence.
In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence.
All this civil war discussion aroused my curiosity. I had never read much about it because my own ancestors were still in Europe in the 1860's. So yesterday I read a long article about U.S. Grant's civil war battles and experiences. I was amazed at some of the numbers involved. Such as 46,000 troops commanded during the Vicksburg battle. I wondered how in the world that many men could sneak across the Mississippi river unnoticed, go down many miles and then cross back over to attack. So I began reading about army logistics in those times. Some of the stuff just blows me away. Supplying, feeding and moving that number of men is a huge undertaking. Here is a good read on the required logistics. ...
http://www.transportation.army.mil/History/PDF/Peninsula%20Campaign/Rodney%20Lackey%20Article_1.pdf
http://www.transportation.army.mil/History/PDF/Peninsula%20Campaign/Rodney%20Lackey%20Article_1.pdf
you should read churchill's account of the preparations for d-day
right now i'm 250 pages into churchilll's "Marlborough" - it's 1702, he's 50, queen anne has just taken the throne and he's about to lead the grand alliance against france in the war of the spanish succession, leading vast armies all over europe
fascinating stuff
right now i'm 250 pages into churchilll's "Marlborough" - it's 1702, he's 50, queen anne has just taken the throne and he's about to lead the grand alliance against france in the war of the spanish succession, leading vast armies all over europe
fascinating stuff
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dreadknought
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Didn't know I was obliged to do it, sorry to offend with a misspelled word, or 2, 3....... :sigh:Can you run a spell check?
i don't even bother anymore - some of the copmputers i use have auto-spellcheck, some of them make it a real pain in the neck
besides, teh only people it bothers are tards like town :banana:
In short, an honorable man is a thing that would in sum and particular represent an unfathomable mystery to someone like you.
As for Alabama, I have a great affection for this state and its people. It is a rich and varied place, but underneath the differences to be found here is a genuine warmth and welcome that has drawn and kept many of our northern cousins, who having real familiarity with them share none of your sad contempt.
It is a state I value, as my family has, holding land and being familiar with the people here for generations, though we have rarely been born within its boundaries (only Jack in living memory).
I think you must be among the most vindictive, ungrateful, ungracious and least happy I've people I have ever met at any distance and while I can't bring myself to a personal interest, as a matter of principle and context I hope one day you find the peace of the religion you lay claim to by profession. It would do your heart good.
And Lee, for all his flaws, was a demonstrably better human being than you seem likely to ever become. And unlike you he appeared to learn from his error.
a man who would have slaves whipped is not "honorable"
one would have to be descended from a long line of inbred retards to think so
btw dreadknought, have fun mocking the stuffed shirt:
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