Modern Day Pharisaism

[Feral Phoenician]

You gave a pertinent answer. The reason I asked is because Jesus said the Sabbath (which is not part of the Noahide laws) was made for mankind, not just Israel. In fact, Sabbath observance was commanded before Israel received the Mosaic law.

And it is referred to in the NT, which says, "So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God." (Hebrews 4:9 NASB)

To be honest, I did not know Jesus said that (totally serious here).

To be entirely honest, the whole concept of "Gentiles are not to make a Sabbath", Gentiles observing the Sabbath are deserving of death, or Gentiles observing the Sabbath are committing a form of adultery...has never sat well with me.

I "chafe" at a lot of the more Orthodox practices, to say the very least. While I was raised Reform, I'm not even that anymore. Do I still believe in God? Yes, it's not so easy to suspend belief, for personal reasons or convenience. Have I "lost my faith"? You bet.

 

[God's Truth]

You simply do not know anything about Jews or Judaism. You think yourself an expert- but you are ignorant.

You rightly judged yourself.

 

[marhig]

For the most part, yes. However, there is much sage advice and wisdom in them. I happen to find The Beatitudes very beautiful. I do think Jesus was a real person (I simply cannot accept the world's largest Religion being based off of a fictional person). I find Jesus to be a very wise scholar.

If I misunderstood the question, I apologize.

I can see he the Christ, look at the wisdom he had, it had to have come from God, men don't think like that. I've never ever heard wisdom like i have when I read about Jesus. You can see he was Gods anointed, and I can see he was full of the holy spirit. The love that he showed was over and above the love that is humans show each other. Even showing forgiveness for those that crucified him.

He said to the Jews of that day

John 10

If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father*is in me, and I in him.

When you read the gospels, think like that. Can you not see that Jesus had to have come from God? To do what he did and have the wisdom and understanding that he had shows he was strong in God and fully anointed of the spirit. Jesus gave his life to God, he didn't have anything of this world in him.

And God blessed him and he is the brightest light to show is the way that there's ever been or that there ever will be, and he is the Christ, the anointed holy son of the living God, and I love him for everything he did, for coming and laying down his life for us and bringing us the truth and showing us the way, and I gladly follow him because I can hear the voice of Gods Messiah and he's brought me from death to life and he's brought me back to God and have a peace in my heart like I've never ever felt before.

I hope you hear his voice one day.

 

[chair]

You rightly judged yourself.

I guess it makes you happy to think that.
Ignorance can be fixed.
Perhaps I'll start a "FAQ about Judaism" thread, and we can straighten out some common misconceptions.

 

[Elia]

While Christians do not keep numerous Jewish writings (Talmud, Maimonides, Rambam etc), Christians do keep and honor Scripture. They worship the same God that we do.

Bs"d

No they do not. The Jewish God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, is Y-H-W-H.

The Christians worship a dead carpenter.

The Jewish God is one, the Christian God is three in one.

They definitely do not worship the same God.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[Elia]

Yes the core, the remnant, the disciples of are Lord Jesus.

Bs"d

No, they are the drop-outs, the idol worshipping Jews.


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5

 

[Elia]

It matters NOTHING to whom you are blood related.

Bs"d

It matters an awful lot.

For Jews there are different rules and regulations than for Gentiles.

As for being raised under Moses...you did NOT OBEY Moses UNTIL you believed AND OBEYED Jesus.

OR you obey Moses, OR you obey the Christian messiah. Both is not possible.

Moses teaches truth, the NT is based on lies and distortions.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[Elia]

Leviticus 4:35 They shall remove all the fat, just as the fat is removed from the lamb of the fellowship offering, and the priest shall burn it on the altar on top of the food offerings presented to the LORD. In this way the priest will make atonement for them for the sin they have committed, and they will be forgiven.


Bs"d

See here how we get forgiveness without animal sacrifices: https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/sacrifices


"Thus says Y-H-W-H: ‘In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”
Zech 8:23
You have no priest. You have no tent with the Spirit of the Lord. You have no lamb.

You do not obey.

Your sins are not forgiven.

 

[Elia]

Jesus is the last Prophet that spoke to the Jews. They always killed their Prophets.

Bs"d

He was a false prophet. For the finer details look HERE in chapter 4.

Your mere denial means nothing.

Your crazy remarks like "my body is the Temple" mean nothing.

Think for yourself, what is better, the blood of an animal, or the blood of the Son of God?

What is better, is what God wants. God wants animal sacrifices. God prohibits human sacrifice.

God has no sons that need to be slaughtered.

That is a crazy pagan notion.

I already gave you you scripture where Isaiah refers to his body as a tent.

I already told you that is a metaphore, don't mix up metaphors with reality.

Only a liar would say the Jews who reject Jesus are obeying Moses.

Only a liar would say that a Christian obeys Moses.

Christians have thrown the laws of God and Moses overboard, and replaced them with paganism.

And then they think they are the chosen people, while really what they are is lawless idolatrous pagans.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[Elia]

a Pharisee has little to no knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, nor do they want to know the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Their main preoccupation is with the law and what they can do to please a holy God, as though that were possible. The Pharisees in Jesus's day were champions of religion. Some even tithed down to the mint in their gardens, Matthew 23:23. It was all about the law and pleasing God by doing or keeping the law.

Bs"d

"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do"
Matt 23:2

Somehow I have the feeling that the Christians are also going to ignore these words of their messiah....


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[jamie]

Perhaps I'll start a "FAQ about Judaism" thread, and we can straighten out some common misconceptions.

Go for it and please tell us Moses' Egyptian name and the name of his stepmom. It brings history to life.

 

[God's Truth]

Bs"d

He was a false prophet. For the finer details look HERE in chapter 4.



Your crazy remarks like "my body is the Temple" mean nothing.



What is better, is what God wants. God wants animal sacrifices. God prohibits human sacrifice.

God has no sons that need to be slaughtered.

That is a crazy pagan notion.



I already told you that is a metaphore, don't mix up metaphors with reality.



Only a liar would say that a Christian obeys Moses.

Christians have thrown the laws of God and Moses overboard, and replaced them with paganism.

And then they think they are the chosen people, while really what they are is lawless idolatrous pagans.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

Your mere opinions are worthless.

If you want knowledge about Jesus, you have to get it the way he says to get it, otherwise you have worthless opinions.

 

[God's Truth]

Bs"d

It matters an awful lot.

For Jews there are different rules and regulations than for Gentiles.



OR you obey Moses, OR you obey the Christian messiah. Both is not possible.

Moses teaches truth, the NT is based on lies and distortions.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15

You do not obey Moses, you cannot and do not.

Are you blind? Do you think we are all blind?

 

[Elia]

You do not obey Moses, you cannot and do not.

Are you blind? Do you think we are all blind?

Bs"d

When you think that 1 + 1 = 1, yes, then you are struck with blindness.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[Elia]

Bs"d

"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do"
Matt 23:2

Somehow I have the feeling that the Christians are also going to ignore these words of their messiah....

Bs"d

Yes, it is totally ignored. Just what I thought.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[radind]

Bs"d

"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do"
Matt 23:2

Somehow I have the feeling that the Christians are also going to ignore these words of their messiah....


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”
Joshua 24:14-15

Also in Mt 23:

10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

 

[God's Truth]

Bs"d

When you think that 1 + 1 = 1, yes, then you are struck with blindness.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

Tell us how you are obeying Moses. Moses says to sacrifice animals and to come to the High Priest. You do not obey. You are just as bound for Hell as all unbelieving Gentiles, and everyone else.

 

[Elia]

Tell us how you are obeying Moses. Moses says to sacrifice animals and to come to the High Priest. You do not obey. You are just as bound for Hell as all unbelieving Gentiles, and everyone else.

Bs"d

We fulfill every law of God we can.

Christianity throws all God's laws overboard, and replaces them with paganism.

And then they are surprised when they are called lawless pagans.




"But beyond this, my son, be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.
The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."

Ecc 12:12-14, New American Standard Bible

 

[Robert Pate]

Bs"d

We fulfill every law of God we can.

Christianity throws all God's laws overboard, and replaces them with paganism.

And then they are surprised when they are called lawless pagans.




"But beyond this, my son, be warned: the writing of many books is endless, and excessive devotion to books is wearying to the body.
The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil."

Ecc 12:12-14, New American Standard Bible

If you really wanted to keep or obey the law you would accept Christ as your savior. Jesus is God's law incarnate in human flesh. He is the epitome of God's holy law.

In the judgment you will either be found "In Christ" or you will be found under the law. To be found outside of Christ is to be under condemnation.

Remember, this Christian tried to warn you.

 

[Epoisses]

Bs"d

We fulfill every law of God we can.

Christianity throws all God's laws overboard, and replaces them with paganism.

And then they are surprised when they are called lawless pagans.

We replace the law with the gospel of grace or the unmerited favor of God. Those like yourself who are working to earn their way to heaven are under condemnation. The law teaches work while grace teaches rest.