moderator malfeasance

[Catholic Crusader]

.......The Catechism of the Council of Trent, for example declares that idolatry is "by worshiping idols and images of God or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them.".......

That is correct. But you must read that very carefully, each word.

• Worshiping Idols: Obviously that is idolatry.
• Worshiping images: The key word there is worshiping, as in worshiping the actual physical object as if that object itself is a god, or as if the object itself possesses any divinity or virtue.

There is no contradiction between that statement and what I said.

Now, speaking of "haters", you see how a thread on moderator malfeasance has turned into yet another Catholic-bashing-Palooza? I swear, you can start a thread on anything here: Baking a cake, choosing a pet, your favorite movie, and within three of four pages people will be calling Catholics heathens and pagans.

You peoples' twisted perverted obsession with the Catholic Church is amazing.

 

[musterion]

The Catechism of the Council of Trent, for example declares that idolatry is "by worshiping idols and images of God or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them."

That passage, as quoted, is the clumsy work of self-serving heathen pagan idol worshipers. How can you know that? Because in Exodus, God did not limit His condemnation of idols to ONLY representations of Himself (which would have gone without saying since He is spirit, thus without form). Yet that is what the Trent passage would suggest, leaving an "out" for bowing down before the imaginary likenesses of Christ, of Mary, of saints, papal toe bones and foreskins. All you have to do is to ignore Scripture and you're good to go...bow down all you want your chalk action figure of St. Hominahomina, ask him to tell you the next Powerball numbers. Trent says it's :thumb: cuz it ain't a representation of God.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

That passage, as quoted, is the clumsy work of self-serving heathen pagan idol worshipers. How can you know that? Because in Exodus, God did not limit His condemnation of idols to ONLY representations of Himself (which would have gone without saying since He is spirit, thus without form). Yet that is what the Trent passage would suggest, leaving an "out" for bowing down before the imaginary likenesses of Christ, of Mary, of saints, papal toe bones and foreskins. All you have to do is to ignore Scripture and you're good to go...bow down all you want your chalk action figure of St. Hominahomina, ask him to tell you the next Powerball numbers. Trent says it's :thumb: cuz it ain't a representation of God.

What a load of bull. Your usual fare.

 

[genuineoriginal]

That is correct. But you must read that very carefully, each word.

• Worshiping Idols: Obviously that is idolatry.
• Worshiping images: The key word there is worshiping, as in worshiping the actual physical object as if that object itself is a god, or as if the object itself possesses any divinity or virtue.

There is no contradiction between that statement and what I said.

It is really amazing the great lengths some people go to try to excuse their mortal sins instead of seeking repentance.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

It is really amazing the great lengths some people go to try to excuse their mortal sins instead of seeking repentance.

Nonsense.


As usual.

 

[CabinetMaker]

That is correct. But you must read that very carefully, each word.

• Worshiping Idols: Obviously that is idolatry.
• Worshiping images: The key word there is worshiping, as in worshiping the actual physical object as if that object itself is a god, or as if the object itself possesses any divinity or virtue.

There is no contradiction between that statement and what I said.

Now, speaking of "haters", you see how a thread on moderator malfeasance has turned into yet another Catholic-bashing-Palooza? I swear, you can start a thread on anything here: Baking a cake, choosing a pet, your favorite movie, and within three of four pages people will be calling Catholics heathens and pagans.

You peoples' twisted perverted obsession with the Catholic Church is amazing.

Makes one wonder what people are doing when they are standing before a statue of Mary that reported to have healing powers.

 

[The Barbarian]

Makes one wonder what people are doing when they are standing before a statue of Mary that reported to have healing powers.

A statue is a sacramental, something that reminds us of something else. The Catechism of the church says that such things have no powers, and are not to be worshiped.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Makes one wonder what people are doing when they are standing before a statue of Mary that reported to have healing powers.

Its because the statue is not what heals, God heals. If God chooses to use an object as the focus of that healing, that is His prerogative.

Need I remind you of these scriptures: The use of the bones of Elisha brought a dead man to life: "So Elisha died, and they buried him. Now bands of Moabites used to invade the land in the spring of the year. And as a man was being buried, lo, a marauding band was seen and the man was cast into the grave of Elisha; and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood on his feet" (2 Kgs. 13:20-21). This is an unequivocal biblical example of a miracle being performed by God through contact with an object.

Similar are the cases of the woman cured of a hemorrhage by touching the hem of Christ’s cloak (Matt. 9:20-22) and the sick who were healed when Peter’s shadow passed over them (Acts 5:14-16). "And God did extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them" (Acts 19:11-12).

If these aren't examples of God using objects, what are? You see, if you read your Bible a little more, and engage in Catholic bashing a little less, you might actually learn something about how God works.

 

[Delmar]

A statue is a sacramental, something that reminds us of something else. The Catechism of the church says that such things have no powers, and are not to be worshiped.

Its because the statue is not what heals, God heals. If God chooses to use an object as the focus of that healing, that is His prerogative.

Need I remind you of these scriptures: The use of the bones of Elisha brought a dead man to life: "So Elisha died, and they buried him. Now bands of Moabites used to invade the land in the spring of the year. And as a man was being buried, lo, a marauding band was seen and the man was cast into the grave of Elisha; and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood on his feet" (2 Kgs. 13:20-21). This is an unequivocal biblical example of a miracle being performed by God through contact with an object.

Similar are the cases of the woman cured of a hemorrhage by touching the hem of Christ’s cloak (Matt. 9:20-22) and the sick who were healed when Peter’s shadow passed over them (Acts 5:14-16). "And God did extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them" (Acts 19:11-12).

If these aren't examples of God using objects, what are? You see, if you read your Bible a little more, and engage in Catholic bashing a little less, you might actually learn something about how God works.

I do appreciate your answers. Though I believe the question was a fair one.

 

[CabinetMaker]

A statue is a sacramental, something that reminds us of something else. The Catechism of the church says that such things have no powers, and are not to be worshiped.

Its because the statue is not what heals, God heals. If God chooses to use an object as the focus of that healing, that is His prerogative.

Need I remind you of these scriptures: The use of the bones of Elisha brought a dead man to life: "So Elisha died, and they buried him. Now bands of Moabites used to invade the land in the spring of the year. And as a man was being buried, lo, a marauding band was seen and the man was cast into the grave of Elisha; and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood on his feet" (2 Kgs. 13:20-21). This is an unequivocal biblical example of a miracle being performed by God through contact with an object.

Similar are the cases of the woman cured of a hemorrhage by touching the hem of Christ’s cloak (Matt. 9:20-22) and the sick who were healed when Peter’s shadow passed over them (Acts 5:14-16). "And God did extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them" (Acts 19:11-12).

If these aren't examples of God using objects, what are? You see, if you read your Bible a little more, and engage in Catholic bashing a little less, you might actually learn something about how God works.

None of this addresses what people are thinking when they stand before a statue of Mary that is reported to have healing powers. Sure, I know what the Catholic Church says they are supposed to think, but who are they really praying to. And who set them up for that failure?

 

[Catholic Crusader]

I do appreciate your answers. Though I believe the question was a fair one.

In isolation, its a fair question. In the context of CabinetMakers history of anti-Catholic attacks, its just another antagonizing post. However, I too appreciate you actually reading my post and seeing our point of view, even if you probably disagree with it.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

None of this addresses what people are thinking when they stand before a statue of Mary that is reported to have healing powers...........

Well for that matter, nobody knows what any protestant might be thinking when they do whatever they do either. For all I know you may be sitting there at your computer and rubbing your Bible hoping to make a wish come true.

The idea that some odd person of ANY faith might be thinking something whacky has nothing to do with the validity of that faith, or the lack thereof.

 

[The Barbarian]

None of this addresses what people are thinking when they stand before a statue of Mary that is reported to have healing powers.

It merely shows that anyone who thinks a statue has healing powers, is not following what the Church says.

Sure, I know what the Catholic Church says they are supposed to think, but who are they really praying to.

The communion of saints excludes statues. Some non-Catholics might do this, or Catholics who don't know much about being a Catholic might, or those who have heard ignorant people say that Catholics worship statues might.

And who set them up for that failure?

People who say the Catholic church is about worshiping statues, I suppose. The idea that declaring it an error to attribute any powers to statues is encouraging people to worship them, sounds wrong to me.

How about you?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Well for that matter, nobody knows what any protestant might be thinking when they do whatever they do either. For all I know you may be sitting there at your computer and rubbing your Bible hoping to make a wish come true.

The idea that some odd person of ANY faith might be thinking something whacky has nothing to do with the validity of that faith, or the lack thereof.

True. But which church actually encourages its members to bow and kneel and pray before statues? Protesants or Catholics?

 

[CabinetMaker]

It merely shows that anyone who thinks a statue has healing powers, is not following what the Church says.

So why isn't the church in Mexico correcting the shrine at Our Lady of Guadalupe. Oh, wait. It received Papel approval in 1754.

The communion of saints excludes statues. Some non-Catholics might do this, or Catholics who don't know much about being a Catholic might, or those who have heard ignorant people say that Catholics worship statues might.

Ah yes, the communion of the saints. Another of tense traditions that had no basis in scripture. Scripture says I can ask you to pray for me but does not say that I should commune with the dead ti pray for me. These are not small things to me. Praying to the dead is a big deal and it never appears in scripture in any form that is approved of.

People who say the Catholic church is about worshiping statues, I suppose. The idea that declaring it an error to attribute any powers to statues is encouraging people to worship them, sounds wrong to me.

Perception is reality. Paul talks about being careful not to do things that cause a brother to stumble.

How about you?

It us wrong. Giving people the idea that kneeling or praying or bowing before a statue or a picture is equally wrong. It causes people to stumble.

 

[IMJerusha]

I think the Roman Catholic church would be a great church if they cleaned up their act, got rid of the idolatry, and actually held the traditions of the Apostles instead of the ones they currently hold.

Unfortunately, the Catholics that finally understand what needs to be changed end up leaving the Catholic church because of those very things.

Eh...every faith expression goes awry in some way, shape or form. Yeshua's the only One who ever got it right.

 

[IMJerusha]

How did you get a gold star on your "Reputation"? Did you donate some money?

No, he's unapologetically ornery and sometimes that's cute. Other times it's not. :chuckle:

 

[IMJerusha]

True. But which church actually encourages its members to bow and kneel and pray before statues? Protesants or Catholics?

Protestants bow and kneel before the Cross. And what's the point of putting flowers on the altar every week or those fancy altar coverings? Then there's the eternal light found in just about all churches. We can make idols out of anything if we want. I think it's a matter of the heart.

 

[IMJerusha]

Moderator malfeasance? Where? Who? Nah!!!

 

[IMJerusha]

Dearest Delmar,

Your brother, ONE EYED JACK,...

You fib! They don't look anything at all alike!