Mixing Law & Grace

[Jerry Shugart]

Cornelius and his whole household believed in God and feared Him, and were devout.

They were not saved because Peter preached the word to them so that they could be saved:

"And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house: And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved" (Acts 11:12-14).​

And as soon as they heard and believed the Holy Spirit fell upon them:

"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 10:44-45).​

The Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius and his household immediately after hearing Peter preach to them. They did not obey anything at that point in time.Do you not think those people were saved despite the fact that the Holy Spirit had fallen on them? Is that what you think?

Now let us look at the following verse again:

"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).​

At John 6:4 the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense, meaning that as soon as someone believes he has eternal life. Perhaps you think that even though a person has eternal life he is not yet saved? Is that what you believe?

Now let us look at the following verse:

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise" (Eph.1:13).​

After believing a person is sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. That happens before anyone obeys. Perhaps you think that even though a believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise he is not yet saved? Is that what you believe?

We also see that a person is born again when he believes the gospel:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

When a person believes the gospel he is born again. Do you not think that once a person is born again that he is saved?

Jerry Shugart

Read how Paul says the DOERS of the law shall be justified.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Yes, the doers of the law shall be justified but in order for that to happen one must keep the law perfectly:

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident" (Gal.3:10-11).​

It is evident that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God to everyone but you!

 

[God's Truth]

They were not saved because Peter preached the word to them so that they could be saved:

"And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house: And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved" (Acts 11:12-14).​

And as soon as they heard and believed the Holy Spirit fell upon them:

"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 10:44-45).​

The Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius and his household immediately after hearing Peter preach to them. They did not obey anything at that point in time.Do you not think those people were saved despite the fact that the Holy Spirit had fallen on them? Is that what you think?

I just gave you scriptures that tell you Cornelius and his whole household were RIGHTEOUS, GOD FEARING, and DEVOUT, they PRAYED TO GOD, and that is WHY PETER was sent to them to hear the message that saves.

You said a person doesn't have to do anything but believe to be saved!

 

[nikolai_42]

"Everyone who commits sin, is the slave of sin" - Jesus

"I had not known sin, but by the Law" Rom 7:7

"The power of sin is the Law." 1 Cor 15:56
"The Law is not of faith." Gal 3:12
"Apart from the Law sin is dead." Rom 7:8
"The righteous will live by faith." Gal 3:11

Anyone who serves the Law commits sin, and everyone who commits sin, is the slave of sin.
Adding the Law to the Gospel (Jesus died for our sins) is to return to sin and lawlessness.
No one is free from sin who serves the Law.

So is commanding repentance for the remission of sins mixing Law and Gospel?

 

[God's Truth]

We also see that a person is born again when he believes the gospel:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).

When a person believes the gospel he is born again. Do you not think that once a person is born again that he is saved?

No one is BORN AGAIN until they repent of their sins and believe that Jesus' blood WASHED away their sins by the Holy Spirit and given the Holy Spirit to live in them.

Titus 3:5... He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

 

[God's Truth]

Read how Paul says the DOERS of the law shall be justified.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Yes, the doers of the law shall be justified but in order for that to happen one must keep the law perfectly:

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident" (Gal.3:10-11).

It is evident that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God to everyone but you!

Paul is speaking about the purification works of the law. If a person doesn’t keep doing the purification works of the law, they are accursed.

 

[beloved57]

All are damned until they come to Jesus in obedience to his teachings, and he teaches more than just believe.

False statement. Those Christ died for are not damned at all, at anytime. Christ has already been made a curse for them and redeemed them from the curse/damnation of the law. Gal 3

 

[God's Truth]

False statement. Those Christ died for are not damned at all, at anytime. Christ has already been made a curse for them and redeemed them from the curse/damnation of the law. Gal 3

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Romans 11:31 so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.


Read this, for you Calvinists are sinners too and are condemned until you are saved by hearing, believing, and obeying the gospel.

Romans 5:19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.


You had to hear and obey the message to be saved, just like everyone else.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[OZOS]

God doesn't send people to hell for preaching obedience to Christ.

You've never obeyed Christ, so yes, you are going to hell.

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

"The just shall live by faith"


Those who have obeyed the gospel live by faith. You don't live by faith. You reject the gospel.
Those who have believed are the righteousness of God. You are unrighteousness. You don't believe the gospel.

Simple.
​​​​​​​

 

[God's Truth]

They were not saved because Peter preached the word to them so that they could be saved:

"And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house: And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved" (Acts 11:12-14).​

And as soon as they heard and believed the Holy Spirit fell upon them:

"While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 10:44-45).​

The Holy Spirit fell on Cornelius and his household immediately after hearing Peter preach to them. They did not obey anything at that point in time.Do you not think those people were saved despite the fact that the Holy Spirit had fallen on them? Is that what you think?

Now let us look at the following verse again:

"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).​

At John 6:4 the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense, meaning that as soon as someone believes he has eternal life. Perhaps you think that even though a person has eternal life he is not yet saved? Is that what you believe?

Now let us look at the following verse:

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise" (Eph.1:13).​

After believing a person is sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. That happens before anyone obeys. Perhaps you think that even though a believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise he is not yet saved? Is that what you believe?

We also see that a person is born again when he believes the gospel:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

When a person believes the gospel he is born again. Do you not think that once a person is born again that he is saved?



Yes, the doers of the law shall be justified but in order for that to happen one must keep the law perfectly:

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident" (Gal.3:10-11).​

It is evident that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God to everyone but you!

All you did was copy and paste your same ole' same ole'. You aren't defending your beliefs with anything but with copy and paste your choice scriptures that you don't understand.

 

[God's Truth]

You've never obeyed Christ, so yes, you are going to hell.

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

"The just shall live by faith"


Those who have obeyed the gospel live by faith. You don't live by faith. You reject the gospel.
Those who have believed are the righteousness of God. You are unrighteousness. You don't believe the gospel.

Simple.

We have to believe that Jesus is keeping us clean and how we don't have to do the ceremonial/purification works of the law.

​​​​​​​

 

[God's Truth]

You've never obeyed Christ, so yes, you are going to hell.

With the measure you use it is measured to you. So says Jesus Christ.

 

[OZOS]

We have to believe that Jesus is keeping us clean and how we don't have to do the ceremonial/purification works of the law.

:crackup: The apostle Paul (whom you reject) says that the 10 commandments have been "abolished". You hate that, because, like the Pharisee in the temple, you are determined to boast in your behavior, and claim that your neighbor is unqualified because of his. You are a prig.

 

[OZOS]

With the measure you use it is measured to you. So says Jesus Christ.

Correct! I say that salvation is by faith, and I have faith in Christ, having believed the gospel. YOU have no faith, having rejected the gospel, thus rejecting Jesus. You are without hope.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

All you did was copy and paste your same ole' same ole'. You aren't defending your beliefs with anything but with copy and paste your choice scriptures that you don't understand.

I answered you uninformed argument and then I made the same argument about other passages because you just IGNORED them!

I proved over and over that a person is saved by faith before any obedience takes place. And that completely destroys your ideas in regard to the meaning of the gospel of grace.

 

[beloved57]

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Romans 11:31 so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.


Read this, for you Calvinists are sinners too and are condemned until you are saved by hearing, believing, and obeying the gospel.

Romans 5:19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.


You had to hear and obey the message to be saved, just like everyone else.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Sorry nobody Christ died for can be condemned. They have been redeemed from the curse of the law. It's sin against the law of God that condemns.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Sorry nobody Christ died for can be condemned. They have been redeemed from the curse of the law. It's sin against the law of God that condemns.

Do you deny that the Lord Jesus tasted death for all people?:

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).​

 

[God's Truth]

:crackup: The apostle Paul (whom you reject) says that the 10 commandments have been "abolished". You hate that, because, like the Pharisee in the temple, you are determined to boast in your behavior, and claim that your neighbor is unqualified because of his. You are a prig.

You are a false witness of Paul accusing him of going against God and saying all of the 10 Commandments is abolished.

 

[God's Truth]

Correct! I say that salvation is by faith, and I have faith in Christ, having believed the gospel. YOU have no faith, having rejected the gospel, thus rejecting Jesus. You are without hope.

You will be judged the way you judged me. That means you are condemned and are going to hell---just like what you said to me.

Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

 

[God's Truth]

I answered you uninformed argument and then I made the same argument about other passages because you just IGNORED them!

I proved over and over that a person is saved by faith before any obedience takes place. And that completely destroys your ideas in regard to the meaning of the gospel of grace.

Give one person's name in the Bible who was saved by believing and not obeying.

 

[God's Truth]

Sorry nobody Christ died for can be condemned. They have been redeemed from the curse of the law. It's sin against the law of God that condemns.

No one is saved until they come to the cross and repent of their sins.