Nanja
Well-known member
Excellent study! ☺
Conclusively then, we can consider that each Member of His Body is a Person of Christ?
~~~~~
Miscellaneous and Varied Truth's of scripture!
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
Excellent study! ☺
Conclusively then, we can consider that each Member of His Body is a Person of Christ?
~~~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes, of being the key word of that statement. Remember when saul, now Paul, was about persecuting believers, when Christ arrested him in his tracks, He said this Acts 9:4 ! They were members of His Body, so they were of Him !
Posted from the TOL App!
Nanja
Well-known member
beloved57
Well-known member
Something to know about God's Love ! 1
Something to know about God's Love ! 1
Heb 1:8-9
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Understand something, God could not have Loved anyone, any sinner, outside of them being in Christ ! The World of men and women of Jn 3:16, could not have been anyone outside of the Love of God in Christ Jesus Our Lord Rom 8:39
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Sinners would have had to been in Christ to be Loved by Him, God could not have Loved sinners for just being sinners , who are merely in themselves ungodly and unholy, to say or suggest that He did so, would be an attack upon His Holiness ! But in Christ God could Love sinful men and women ,because in Divine reality He viewed them in Christ before Him in this manner Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
In other words, If He so Loved us, He viewed us in that manner, Holy and Without Blame !
Thats right, ungodly sinners in themselves,yet before God they are in Christ, Holy and without blame in Love !
Something to know about God's Love ! 1
Heb 1:8-9
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Understand something, God could not have Loved anyone, any sinner, outside of them being in Christ ! The World of men and women of Jn 3:16, could not have been anyone outside of the Love of God in Christ Jesus Our Lord Rom 8:39
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Sinners would have had to been in Christ to be Loved by Him, God could not have Loved sinners for just being sinners , who are merely in themselves ungodly and unholy, to say or suggest that He did so, would be an attack upon His Holiness ! But in Christ God could Love sinful men and women ,because in Divine reality He viewed them in Christ before Him in this manner Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
In other words, If He so Loved us, He viewed us in that manner, Holy and Without Blame !
Thats right, ungodly sinners in themselves,yet before God they are in Christ, Holy and without blame in Love !
beloved57
Well-known member
Something to know about God's Love ! 2
Something to know about God's Love ! 2
God could not Love ungodly sinners in and of themselves, that would contradcict His Holiness ! Sinners that God so Loved are yet Righteous, because of this Heb 1:8-9
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Outside of the Love of God which is in Christ Jesus Rom 8:39, God sees men only as described here Ps 5:5
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
They are in that category in Heb 1:9 of hated iniquity, sinners outside of Christ and the Love of God in Him Rom 8:39 are nothing but Iniquity, or workers of iniquity whom God hates.
Yes, sinners who are in Christ, yes they do iniquity, that is not denied, however of the workers of iniquity they cannot be, because for Christ's sake, Iniquity is not laid to their charge Ps 32:2
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
So consequently, those who cannot be charged with iniquity, even though they commit it, they cannot be classified or charged as workers of Iniquity. Those who shall hear the words here Matt 7:23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It is impossible for any of them to have been one of these Ps 32:2
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
However, all ungodly sinners in Christ are of those blessed ones, iniquity was not charged to them because of Isa 53:5,6
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Because they were charged to Him, Christ, for Him to be bruised for them
He was bruised for our iniquties because of Vs 6 which says:
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Because instead of thembeing laid on us, they were laid on Christ, hence lies the blessing Ps 32:2
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Those are the only ungodly sinners God can Justly Love without violating His Holiness !
Something to know about God's Love ! 2
God could not Love ungodly sinners in and of themselves, that would contradcict His Holiness ! Sinners that God so Loved are yet Righteous, because of this Heb 1:8-9
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Outside of the Love of God which is in Christ Jesus Rom 8:39, God sees men only as described here Ps 5:5
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
They are in that category in Heb 1:9 of hated iniquity, sinners outside of Christ and the Love of God in Him Rom 8:39 are nothing but Iniquity, or workers of iniquity whom God hates.
Yes, sinners who are in Christ, yes they do iniquity, that is not denied, however of the workers of iniquity they cannot be, because for Christ's sake, Iniquity is not laid to their charge Ps 32:2
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
So consequently, those who cannot be charged with iniquity, even though they commit it, they cannot be classified or charged as workers of Iniquity. Those who shall hear the words here Matt 7:23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It is impossible for any of them to have been one of these Ps 32:2
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
However, all ungodly sinners in Christ are of those blessed ones, iniquity was not charged to them because of Isa 53:5,6
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Because they were charged to Him, Christ, for Him to be bruised for them
He was bruised for our iniquties because of Vs 6 which says:
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Because instead of thembeing laid on us, they were laid on Christ, hence lies the blessing Ps 32:2
2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Those are the only ungodly sinners God can Justly Love without violating His Holiness !
beloved57
Well-known member
Something to know about God's Love ! 3
Something to know about God's Love ! 3
So the World God so Loved Jn 3:16 is now, and has been, and always will be Holy and Without Blame in His Sight Eph 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Everyone in that World of Jn 3:16 must also be those He Predestinated unto the Adoption of Children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His Will, this is a must if He so Loved them, as the last part of Eph 1:4 connected to Vs 5 indicates, and the scripture cannot be broken !
Something to know about God's Love ! 3
So the World God so Loved Jn 3:16 is now, and has been, and always will be Holy and Without Blame in His Sight Eph 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Everyone in that World of Jn 3:16 must also be those He Predestinated unto the Adoption of Children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His Will, this is a must if He so Loved them, as the last part of Eph 1:4 connected to Vs 5 indicates, and the scripture cannot be broken !
beloved57
Well-known member
In Him when He died for them and why ! 5
In Him when He died for them and why ! 5
As our sins were Laid on Christ, we who were Chosen in Him by Election, He came to die for our sins 1 Cor 15:3 and in our stead, and so when He did die for us, it was same in the eye of God's Law and Justice as if we all died together with Him, He the Head, we The Members of His Body, and so Paul could say, as well as any for whom He died Gal 2:20
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Also Rom 6:8 applies which reads Rom 6:8
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
or it can read as follows:
Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him NKJV
Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.NIV
Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.ESV
Now understand something, If He indeed died for Us, then we have died with Christ !
So, again Rom 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
This applies to everyone Christ did die for, So therefore when Christ died for us, we were reckoned by God as dead, meaning this, That His Death was reckoned by God as the death of all for whom He represented , you see His death was not merely as a private individual, but as an Head and Representative, a Surety, of all the Chosen Members of His Body, for if the Head was Chosen, so was His Body !
When Christ died, though One Person, He died for all His Members, Paul's meaning here 2 Cor 5:14
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
This lets us know that Paul understood that Christ died as the Head of His Body the Church and that they died with Him !
So also then when He arose from the grave or from the dead, He rose for and we with Him for Our Justification Rom 4:25, for He arose as He died as our Head and Representative !
In Him, We died because of Our Election in Him, has nothing to do with our act of faith, or water baptism as falsely taught by antichrist followers, and this Great blessing applies solely unto them that Christ died for, His Chosen Church and Body, not all mankind without exception !
In Him when He died for them and why ! 5
As our sins were Laid on Christ, we who were Chosen in Him by Election, He came to die for our sins 1 Cor 15:3 and in our stead, and so when He did die for us, it was same in the eye of God's Law and Justice as if we all died together with Him, He the Head, we The Members of His Body, and so Paul could say, as well as any for whom He died Gal 2:20
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Also Rom 6:8 applies which reads Rom 6:8
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
or it can read as follows:
Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him NKJV
Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.NIV
Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.ESV
Now understand something, If He indeed died for Us, then we have died with Christ !
So, again Rom 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
This applies to everyone Christ did die for, So therefore when Christ died for us, we were reckoned by God as dead, meaning this, That His Death was reckoned by God as the death of all for whom He represented , you see His death was not merely as a private individual, but as an Head and Representative, a Surety, of all the Chosen Members of His Body, for if the Head was Chosen, so was His Body !
When Christ died, though One Person, He died for all His Members, Paul's meaning here 2 Cor 5:14
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
This lets us know that Paul understood that Christ died as the Head of His Body the Church and that they died with Him !
So also then when He arose from the grave or from the dead, He rose for and we with Him for Our Justification Rom 4:25, for He arose as He died as our Head and Representative !
In Him, We died because of Our Election in Him, has nothing to do with our act of faith, or water baptism as falsely taught by antichrist followers, and this Great blessing applies solely unto them that Christ died for, His Chosen Church and Body, not all mankind without exception !
beloved57
Well-known member
Christ came to save sinners indeed !
Christ came to save sinners indeed !
1 Tim 1:15
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
If a person tells you that Christ came to save anyone, and that person just did not want it, they are telling you a lie, they are a false teacher !
Oh Yes, all men are sinners by nature Eph 2:3, but not all men understand the serious complications as a result of being a sinner, and to be frank and honest, none of us by nature understands properly their sinfulness and helplessness and hopelessness, nor as what Paul calls it here Rom 7:13
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
That word exceeding meaning above measure !
That is by nature we are not knowing of the exceeding sinfulness of sin !
This understanding comes only to those who shall be taught of God the Spirit, which Jesus alludes to here Jn 6:45
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Also here Jn 16:8-9
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
This reproving of sin equates to what Paul writes in Rom 7:13, this reproving of sin by the Spirit causes sin to be exceeding sinful to the one being reproved by the Spirit !
That word reprove is the greek word elegchō and means:
I.
to convict, refute, confute
A.
generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted
B.
by conviction to bring to the light, to expose
II.
to find fault with, correct
A.
by word
i.
to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove
ii.
to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation
B.
by deed
i.
to chasten, to punish
Its a very strong word meaning that its effective, its a chastening that brings about a learning.
Now one is not a sinner that Christ came to save if they do not experience this chastening, this severe rebuking, which is done by the Spirit and by Him a Spiritual application of the Law, which gives the sinner a True knowledge of sin [its exceeding sinfulness], also Pauls meaning here Rom 3:20
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
For by the Law, as it is Spiritually applied by the Spirit is the Knowledge of sin !
Now the word knowledge here is a special word,its the greek word epignōsis and means:
I.precise and correct knowledge
knowledge of a particular point (directed towards a particular object); perception, discernment, recognition, intuition.
1922 epígnōsis (from 1909 /epí, "on, fitting" which intensifies 1108 /gnṓsis, "knowledge gained through first-hand relationship") – properly, "contact-knowledge" that is appropriate ("apt, fitting") to first-hand, experiential knowing.
Its coming into a experiential knowing of the exceeding sinfulness of sin within with the Law and the Spirit, Paul alludes to that here also Rom 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Christ came to save sinners indeed !
1 Tim 1:15
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
If a person tells you that Christ came to save anyone, and that person just did not want it, they are telling you a lie, they are a false teacher !
Oh Yes, all men are sinners by nature Eph 2:3, but not all men understand the serious complications as a result of being a sinner, and to be frank and honest, none of us by nature understands properly their sinfulness and helplessness and hopelessness, nor as what Paul calls it here Rom 7:13
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
That word exceeding meaning above measure !
That is by nature we are not knowing of the exceeding sinfulness of sin !
This understanding comes only to those who shall be taught of God the Spirit, which Jesus alludes to here Jn 6:45
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Also here Jn 16:8-9
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
This reproving of sin equates to what Paul writes in Rom 7:13, this reproving of sin by the Spirit causes sin to be exceeding sinful to the one being reproved by the Spirit !
That word reprove is the greek word elegchō and means:
I.
to convict, refute, confute
A.
generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted
B.
by conviction to bring to the light, to expose
II.
to find fault with, correct
A.
by word
i.
to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove
ii.
to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation
B.
by deed
i.
to chasten, to punish
Its a very strong word meaning that its effective, its a chastening that brings about a learning.
Now one is not a sinner that Christ came to save if they do not experience this chastening, this severe rebuking, which is done by the Spirit and by Him a Spiritual application of the Law, which gives the sinner a True knowledge of sin [its exceeding sinfulness], also Pauls meaning here Rom 3:20
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
For by the Law, as it is Spiritually applied by the Spirit is the Knowledge of sin !
Now the word knowledge here is a special word,its the greek word epignōsis and means:
I.precise and correct knowledge
knowledge of a particular point (directed towards a particular object); perception, discernment, recognition, intuition.
1922 epígnōsis (from 1909 /epí, "on, fitting" which intensifies 1108 /gnṓsis, "knowledge gained through first-hand relationship") – properly, "contact-knowledge" that is appropriate ("apt, fitting") to first-hand, experiential knowing.
Its coming into a experiential knowing of the exceeding sinfulness of sin within with the Law and the Spirit, Paul alludes to that here also Rom 7:7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
beloved57
Well-known member
Christ came to save sinners indeed !2
Christ came to save sinners indeed !2
Paul does not mean the mere letter of the law, but the law as it is being wielded by the Spirit to wrought in him all manner of lust or covetousness Rom 7:8
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Until this happens by the Spirit and the Law, we are not the sinners Christ came to save !
You see Paul by nature as well as all men can be, was very religious, he by nature never knew that the Law of God condemned him as a coveteous man, in fact he described his self to the law of God in religious deceived days here Phil 3:6
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
But see at that time he was a very covetous man Rom 7:7 and by that an Idolater Col 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
So, yes Paul as Saul when being very devout and religious Phil 3:6 was in active Idolatry but did not know it ! He was a terrible sinner before God, but did not know it,
he had to be taught of God of himself as an sinner and his sinfulness Jn 6:45
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
All the elect shall be taught out of God's Law Ps 94:12
Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O Lord, and teachest him out of thy law;
So the sinners that Christ came to save are only those who by the work of the Spirit wielding the law, making them know sin experientially Rom 7:7-9
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
In the parable of the publican and pharisee Lk 18:9-14 both of these men were sinners before God, but only one of them was made to know sin and to know experientially the law as Per Rom 7:7 and thus know their sinnership, and such sinners Christ came to save 1 Tim 1:15
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
This is a sinner that only the Spirit of God wielding the law upon him can make , to the Glory of God through Christ !
Christ came to save sinners indeed !2
Paul does not mean the mere letter of the law, but the law as it is being wielded by the Spirit to wrought in him all manner of lust or covetousness Rom 7:8
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Until this happens by the Spirit and the Law, we are not the sinners Christ came to save !
You see Paul by nature as well as all men can be, was very religious, he by nature never knew that the Law of God condemned him as a coveteous man, in fact he described his self to the law of God in religious deceived days here Phil 3:6
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
But see at that time he was a very covetous man Rom 7:7 and by that an Idolater Col 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
So, yes Paul as Saul when being very devout and religious Phil 3:6 was in active Idolatry but did not know it ! He was a terrible sinner before God, but did not know it,
he had to be taught of God of himself as an sinner and his sinfulness Jn 6:45
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
All the elect shall be taught out of God's Law Ps 94:12
Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O Lord, and teachest him out of thy law;
So the sinners that Christ came to save are only those who by the work of the Spirit wielding the law, making them know sin experientially Rom 7:7-9
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
In the parable of the publican and pharisee Lk 18:9-14 both of these men were sinners before God, but only one of them was made to know sin and to know experientially the law as Per Rom 7:7 and thus know their sinnership, and such sinners Christ came to save 1 Tim 1:15
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
This is a sinner that only the Spirit of God wielding the law upon him can make , to the Glory of God through Christ !
beloved57
Well-known member
Christ came to save sinners indeed ! 3
Christ came to save sinners indeed ! 3
Men as we are by nature, dont know the true character of our being sinners before God, our awful sinfulness, not until we are born of the Spirit, and by this we can begin to feel our sinfulness, and it is this which sets the foundation for Faith, which is a fruit of the Spirit we are newly born of, by which now they can receive Christ and His Righteousness as theirs, for the Spirit in them wielding the Law, does work in them a spiritual hunger and or thirst for Righteousness which can only be fulfilled by Christ Matt 5:6
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
And so the Law in the Hand of the Spirit serves its Divine Purpose, that is to bring an Elect sinner that Christ died for to Faith in Christ Gal 3:24
24 Wherefore the law was our [The elect seed of abraham] schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Both jew and gentile of that seed Rom 3:20
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
The law being a schoolmaster to bring the elect seed to Faith in Christ is what Jesus means here Jn 6:45
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me [In Faith].
Christ came to save sinners indeed ! 3
Men as we are by nature, dont know the true character of our being sinners before God, our awful sinfulness, not until we are born of the Spirit, and by this we can begin to feel our sinfulness, and it is this which sets the foundation for Faith, which is a fruit of the Spirit we are newly born of, by which now they can receive Christ and His Righteousness as theirs, for the Spirit in them wielding the Law, does work in them a spiritual hunger and or thirst for Righteousness which can only be fulfilled by Christ Matt 5:6
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
And so the Law in the Hand of the Spirit serves its Divine Purpose, that is to bring an Elect sinner that Christ died for to Faith in Christ Gal 3:24
24 Wherefore the law was our [The elect seed of abraham] schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Both jew and gentile of that seed Rom 3:20
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
The law being a schoolmaster to bring the elect seed to Faith in Christ is what Jesus means here Jn 6:45
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me [In Faith].
beloved57
Well-known member
Christ came to save sinners indeed ! 4
Christ came to save sinners indeed ! 4
The Law, to the elect seed, was and is a schoolmaster to every son that Christ tasted death for Heb 2:9-10
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man or Son.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
To bring every son to Faith in Christ ! The school master of Gal 3:24
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Its the greek word paidagōgos and means:
It also denotes a legally appointed overseer, authorized to train , as to train a child, as in administering discipline and instruction, doing what is required for development, for Christ tasted death for every son Heb 2:9-10, and so every son is chastened, disciplined and instructed by the Law in the Hand of the Spirit, the writers points here Heb 12:5-8; that word discipline in Vs 8
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
That no son whom Christ tasted death for can be without, its the same word for schoolmaster in Gal 3:24 !
So every son whom Christ tasted death for Heb 2:9-10, shall experience the Law in the Hand of the Spirit, being a Schoolmaster, bringing them to Faith in Christ, and so fulfill Jn 6:45
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
In fact, where this reference is found n the prophets, in Isaiah , it refers to the children Isa 54:13
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
And that word for children ben is translated over 900 times as son !
All this teaching is to teach them they are sinners,which Christ came to save !
Christ came to save sinners indeed ! 4
The Law, to the elect seed, was and is a schoolmaster to every son that Christ tasted death for Heb 2:9-10
9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man or Son.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
To bring every son to Faith in Christ ! The school master of Gal 3:24
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Its the greek word paidagōgos and means:
It also denotes a legally appointed overseer, authorized to train , as to train a child, as in administering discipline and instruction, doing what is required for development, for Christ tasted death for every son Heb 2:9-10, and so every son is chastened, disciplined and instructed by the Law in the Hand of the Spirit, the writers points here Heb 12:5-8; that word discipline in Vs 8
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
That no son whom Christ tasted death for can be without, its the same word for schoolmaster in Gal 3:24 !
So every son whom Christ tasted death for Heb 2:9-10, shall experience the Law in the Hand of the Spirit, being a Schoolmaster, bringing them to Faith in Christ, and so fulfill Jn 6:45
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
In fact, where this reference is found n the prophets, in Isaiah , it refers to the children Isa 54:13
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
And that word for children ben is translated over 900 times as son !
All this teaching is to teach them they are sinners,which Christ came to save !
beloved57
Well-known member
Who are the all here Rom 11:32 ?
Who are the all here Rom 11:32 ?
Rom 11:30-32
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Now who are the all here whom God designs to have mercy upon ? It certainly cannot be all without exception as false antichrist teaching tells us, But it means all the Vessels of Mercy, from out of both Gentiles and Jews as Per Rom 9:23-24
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Now given the context of Rom 9-11 doesnt that make sense ? That He hath concluded all the Vessels of Mercy unto Unbelief,so that He may have Mercy upon them all, all them that He had afore prepared unto Glory !
Who are the all here Rom 11:32 ?
Rom 11:30-32
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Now who are the all here whom God designs to have mercy upon ? It certainly cannot be all without exception as false antichrist teaching tells us, But it means all the Vessels of Mercy, from out of both Gentiles and Jews as Per Rom 9:23-24
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Now given the context of Rom 9-11 doesnt that make sense ? That He hath concluded all the Vessels of Mercy unto Unbelief,so that He may have Mercy upon them all, all them that He had afore prepared unto Glory !
Nanja
Well-known member
beloved57
Well-known member
Amen !
beloved57
Well-known member
Who are the all here Rom 11:32 ?2
Who are the all here Rom 11:32 ?2
We have argued previously that the all of Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
does not refer to all mankind without exception as the false teachers tell us, but that it does apply to all the Vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23-24
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
The All of Rom 11:32 means The Vessels of Mercy out of the jews and also out of the Gentiles. Now understand, the all to whom God has Mercy upon, does obtain that Mercy to the deliverance from unbelief to belief or Faith, as Illustrated in the testimony of Paul here 1 Tim 1:13-14
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Paul means by obtained mercy in Vs 13 that he sovereignly experienced Mercy because God Sovereignly had Mercy upon him, just like when he wrote in Rom 9 when God said Rom 9:15-16
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
This means that God shows Mercy in a Sovereign way, in that it produces results favorable to the one or ones that He shows Mercy upon !
Notice how that Paul was in unbelief and ingornace in Vs 13, and when it says he was IN unbelief, its a strong sense in that the prep en denotes that he was in the realm and sphere of unbelief, enclosed in it as in Rom 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
That word concluded means :
I.
to shut up together, enclose
A.
of a shoal of fishes in a net
II.
to shut up on all sides, shut up completely
It means basically to be imprisoned in unbelief !
Also its a sphere of which is a condition or state, in which something operates from the inside or within.
This would be the spirit that now worketh in the disobedient Eph 2:2
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Understand something, we are all BY NATURE under the control of this spirit working inwardly !
But God had Mercy upon him and us as Vessels of Mercy, all of which obtain mercy just as Paul did, which results in Faith and Love, as Paul expressed here 1 Tim 1:14
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
When God has Mercy upon any that is in Unbelief, it results in and effects Faith ! Thats the result of God having Mercy Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Which Mercy applies unto them Faith and so delivers them from unbelief and ignorance, so all the ones in Rom 11:32, does by the bestowed Mercy of God, convert into believers; and Paul goes on to say that his deliverance from unbelief and ignorance to Faith and Love was but an example of how any comes to believe on Christ for Salvation 1 Tim 1:16
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Thats what it means for Christ to save sinners 1 Tim 1:15 to deliver them from unbelief and ignorance through mercy and grace. So true believers doeth believe, not because of their own freewill as the antichrist tells us, but because God had Mercy and they believed through Grace Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Who are the all here Rom 11:32 ?2
We have argued previously that the all of Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
does not refer to all mankind without exception as the false teachers tell us, but that it does apply to all the Vessels of Mercy Rom 9:23-24
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
The All of Rom 11:32 means The Vessels of Mercy out of the jews and also out of the Gentiles. Now understand, the all to whom God has Mercy upon, does obtain that Mercy to the deliverance from unbelief to belief or Faith, as Illustrated in the testimony of Paul here 1 Tim 1:13-14
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Paul means by obtained mercy in Vs 13 that he sovereignly experienced Mercy because God Sovereignly had Mercy upon him, just like when he wrote in Rom 9 when God said Rom 9:15-16
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
This means that God shows Mercy in a Sovereign way, in that it produces results favorable to the one or ones that He shows Mercy upon !
Notice how that Paul was in unbelief and ingornace in Vs 13, and when it says he was IN unbelief, its a strong sense in that the prep en denotes that he was in the realm and sphere of unbelief, enclosed in it as in Rom 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
That word concluded means :
I.
to shut up together, enclose
A.
of a shoal of fishes in a net
II.
to shut up on all sides, shut up completely
It means basically to be imprisoned in unbelief !
Also its a sphere of which is a condition or state, in which something operates from the inside or within.
This would be the spirit that now worketh in the disobedient Eph 2:2
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Understand something, we are all BY NATURE under the control of this spirit working inwardly !
But God had Mercy upon him and us as Vessels of Mercy, all of which obtain mercy just as Paul did, which results in Faith and Love, as Paul expressed here 1 Tim 1:14
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
When God has Mercy upon any that is in Unbelief, it results in and effects Faith ! Thats the result of God having Mercy Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Which Mercy applies unto them Faith and so delivers them from unbelief and ignorance, so all the ones in Rom 11:32, does by the bestowed Mercy of God, convert into believers; and Paul goes on to say that his deliverance from unbelief and ignorance to Faith and Love was but an example of how any comes to believe on Christ for Salvation 1 Tim 1:16
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Thats what it means for Christ to save sinners 1 Tim 1:15 to deliver them from unbelief and ignorance through mercy and grace. So true believers doeth believe, not because of their own freewill as the antichrist tells us, but because God had Mercy and they believed through Grace Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen! The ALL are the Vessels of Mercy.
At some point in their life, every Vessel of Mercy will be drawn by God John 6:44 KJV;
called by His Grace Gal. 1:15 KJV. They were separated from their mother's womb and
preserved in Christ, and destined to be called by His Grace after the same pattern Paul
describes. These are all the ones Christ gave His Life for: They were chosen before the
foundation of the world, and predestined to be adopted as His Children, made to be
accepted in the beloved, to have redemption through His Blood, forgiveness of sins.
That's Salvation! All according to the good pleasure of His Will, and according to
the Riches of His Grace! Eph. 1:4-7 KJV
beloved
2 Thes 2:13-14 KJV But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord,
because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and
belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
beloved
Amen. The natural man is utterly helpless in contributing in any way to his own salvation because he cannot believe the Truth.
Only in the New Birth, when one is given Faith, does he reap the benefits of wisdom and prudence; understanding of
God's Will and Purpose in His creation.
Eph. 1
v8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
v9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
v10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
v11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will
~~~~~
At some point in their life, every Vessel of Mercy will be drawn by God John 6:44 KJV;
called by His Grace Gal. 1:15 KJV. They were separated from their mother's womb and
preserved in Christ, and destined to be called by His Grace after the same pattern Paul
describes. These are all the ones Christ gave His Life for: They were chosen before the
foundation of the world, and predestined to be adopted as His Children, made to be
accepted in the beloved, to have redemption through His Blood, forgiveness of sins.
That's Salvation! All according to the good pleasure of His Will, and according to
the Riches of His Grace! Eph. 1:4-7 KJV
beloved
2 Thes 2:13-14 KJV But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord,
because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and
belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
beloved
Amen. The natural man is utterly helpless in contributing in any way to his own salvation because he cannot believe the Truth.
Only in the New Birth, when one is given Faith, does he reap the benefits of wisdom and prudence; understanding of
God's Will and Purpose in His creation.
Eph. 1
v8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
v9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
v10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
v11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will
~~~~~
beloved57
Well-known member
Who are the all here Rom 11:32 ? 3 and conclusion !
Who are the all here Rom 11:32 ? 3 and conclusion !
All those of Rom 11:32 who shall obtain Mercy as the Vessels of Mercy, as Illustrated by Paul in 1 Tim 1:13-16
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
The conclusion is this, Paul as well as all other Vessels of Mercy, obtain Mercy to become converted into Believers in Christ !
Who are the all here Rom 11:32 ? 3 and conclusion !
All those of Rom 11:32 who shall obtain Mercy as the Vessels of Mercy, as Illustrated by Paul in 1 Tim 1:13-16
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
The conclusion is this, Paul as well as all other Vessels of Mercy, obtain Mercy to become converted into Believers in Christ !
beloved57
Well-known member
Cannot lay any charge on them It is Christ that died! ?
Cannot lay any charge on them It is Christ that died! ?
Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Now who does this exactly apply to ? First of all it applies to God's Elect
Or it be said that it applies to those Christ died for, which is still only the Elect; So it applies to God's Elect, meaning those Christ died for.
Heres the Truth of the Gospel, the Divine Justice cannot charge any sinner who Christ died for, with any of their sins, not one ounce of God's wrath can be executed upon them for their sins that do deserve His wrath; Like for instance, these things listed that some God will pour out of His wrath upon Eph 5:3-6
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. also
Gal 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Yes, though God's elect are guilty f these sins as other men are, even as unbelievers and enemies, God's Justice and wrath cannot and will not charge them accordingly, for its as David says here of God's Elect Ps 103:10
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. This is because of non imputation !
And this is solely because of that Perfect satisfaction which Christ's blood would and has made to God's Law and Justice on their behalf,and so they Justified from all sin in His sight Rom 8:33, and clothed in Christ's Righteousness, and this before they know a thing about it, and while they are yet dead in trespasses and sins as other sinners by nature ! The fact still remains of them while they are ungodly, God Cannot lay any charge on them, It is Christ that died! ?
Cannot lay any charge on them It is Christ that died! ?
Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Now who does this exactly apply to ? First of all it applies to God's Elect
Or it be said that it applies to those Christ died for, which is still only the Elect; So it applies to God's Elect, meaning those Christ died for.
Heres the Truth of the Gospel, the Divine Justice cannot charge any sinner who Christ died for, with any of their sins, not one ounce of God's wrath can be executed upon them for their sins that do deserve His wrath; Like for instance, these things listed that some God will pour out of His wrath upon Eph 5:3-6
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. also
Gal 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Yes, though God's elect are guilty f these sins as other men are, even as unbelievers and enemies, God's Justice and wrath cannot and will not charge them accordingly, for its as David says here of God's Elect Ps 103:10
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. This is because of non imputation !
And this is solely because of that Perfect satisfaction which Christ's blood would and has made to God's Law and Justice on their behalf,and so they Justified from all sin in His sight Rom 8:33, and clothed in Christ's Righteousness, and this before they know a thing about it, and while they are yet dead in trespasses and sins as other sinners by nature ! The fact still remains of them while they are ungodly, God Cannot lay any charge on them, It is Christ that died! ?
beloved57
Well-known member
Yes Children of wrath as others, BUT !
Yes Children of wrath as others, BUT !
Eph 2:3
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Now who does Paul specifically say this of and to ? Lets go back to Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
He is directing his comment to those Chosen in Christ before the foundation.
Now does this mean that as " by nature children of wrath" that they were as others ever condemned already and under God's wrath as say these Jn 3:18,36 ?
No it does not, that could never be the case for them , NOT EVER ! The unregenerate Chosen in Christ, children of wrath by nature are never by God condemned or under His Wrath, in fact they are objects of His Love and pity Eph 2:4-5
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )
In fact, the OT counter part says the same thing Ezk 16:4-6,8,9
4 And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all.
5 None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.
6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood [dead in sin ], Live.
8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
For those God so loves Jn 3:16 there is a time of Love for them, a time when God applies His Love to them, and by that they Live !
Now understand this, BY nature, the unregenerate Chosen in Christ are just as deserving of God's wrath as the others are, who are the actual children of disobedience, who shall be punished eternally for their disobedience and sins 2 Thess 1:8-9
They are without hope and mercy !
But the chosen, those Christ died for, they are never under His condemnation nor wrath, and even as enemies in themselves, they are reconciled to God by His Son's death for them Rom 5:10 !
Yes Children of wrath as others, BUT !
Eph 2:3
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Now who does Paul specifically say this of and to ? Lets go back to Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
He is directing his comment to those Chosen in Christ before the foundation.
Now does this mean that as " by nature children of wrath" that they were as others ever condemned already and under God's wrath as say these Jn 3:18,36 ?
No it does not, that could never be the case for them , NOT EVER ! The unregenerate Chosen in Christ, children of wrath by nature are never by God condemned or under His Wrath, in fact they are objects of His Love and pity Eph 2:4-5
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )
In fact, the OT counter part says the same thing Ezk 16:4-6,8,9
4 And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all.
5 None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.
6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood [dead in sin ], Live.
8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
For those God so loves Jn 3:16 there is a time of Love for them, a time when God applies His Love to them, and by that they Live !
Now understand this, BY nature, the unregenerate Chosen in Christ are just as deserving of God's wrath as the others are, who are the actual children of disobedience, who shall be punished eternally for their disobedience and sins 2 Thess 1:8-9
They are without hope and mercy !
But the chosen, those Christ died for, they are never under His condemnation nor wrath, and even as enemies in themselves, they are reconciled to God by His Son's death for them Rom 5:10 !