MATTHEW 28 IS IT OUR COMMISSION?

[Idolater]

Matthew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.

28:17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus was commanding the eleven disciples. Jesus commanded them to teach all the nations to obey his commandments. This was preparation for the coming Davidic kingdom on earth. Israel was to be a light to the Gentile nations in the kingdom.They were commanded to baptize in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost, where as before it was in the name of Jesus only because the Holy Ghost was not fallen on them. Isaiah 42:6 Isaiah 2:2-3 Acts 2:38 Acts 8:16

Mark 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

The eleven disciples, were once again, the only ones who were given this commandment. They were to go and preach the gospel of the kingdom. The gospel of the coming kingdom on earth, in which Christ will reign along with the disciples. They were not preaching Paul's gospel. Matthew 24:14

16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The gospel of the kingdom required baptism. The salvation spoken of here is a physical salvation that would deliver Israel from the tribulation and the Antichrist. This salvation is Israel being saved to enter the kingdom on earth.

16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

These were signs that would only follow the disciples at the time the gospel of the kingdom was being preached. This gospel is not being preached today, nor does the church, the body of Christ have any basis to warrant any expectation that these signs have any application today.

16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

The signs that would follow belief were only to confirm the authenticity of the word spoken of the coming kingdom.

Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

The nations are Gentiles. Starting first at Jerusalem, the gospel of the kingdom would be preached. It is to the Jew first. Acts 15:7 Romans 1:16

The nations were to be given the same gospel of the kingdom the Apostles preached to Israel. Mark 13:10 Luke 9:6

The nations, as did Israel, were to repent and believe on the name of Jesus for remission of sins. This is the same remission of sins that John and Peter preached. Mark 1:4 Acts 2:38 Acts 10:43

24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

John and the eleven remaining disciples were witnesses. The church, the body of Christ can not be witnesses. Paul only was witness. John 1:7 John 15:27 Acts 1:22 Acts 22:15

24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

The disciples were to remain in Jerusalem and wait for the Holy Ghost. This was fulfilled at Pentecost. Acts 2:1

John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Jesus gave the authority to remit sins. The body of Christ has no such authority.

The commissions were given to the disciples only. They were to go unto the nations, the Gentiles. The body of Christ are to go to all men, to exhort that all be reconciled to God, through The Lord Jesus Christ. The body of Christ, the church, in this dispensation, are ambasadors of Christ to all. 2 Corinthians 5:20 Colossians 1:18

So you're saying that the then future Apostles were commanded by the Lord in Matthew 28:19-20 KJV to go baptize Gentiles?

 

[Right Divider]

So you're saying that the then future Apostles were commanded by the Lord in Matthew 28:19-20 KJV to go baptize Gentiles?

Jesus was talking to eleven apostles, soon to be restored to twelve.

What are "the then future Apostles"?

All you have to do is read the text without bias:

Mat 28:16-20 KJV Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. (17) And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. (18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

 

[Idolater]

Jesus was talking to eleven apostles, soon to be restored to twelve.

What are "the then future Apostles"?

You're right, they were right then made Apostles.

All you have to do is read the text without bias:

Mat 28:16-20 KJV Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. (17) And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. (18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

So then Yes, the Apostles were commanded by the Lord in Matthew 28:19-20 KJV to go baptize Gentiles?

 

[Right Divider]

You're right, they were right then made Apostles.

The scripture doesn't actually say that. Where did you get that idea?

Luke seems to disagree with you:

Luk 6:13 KJV And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;​

Apostles are messengers and Jesus sent them out with a message long before Matthew 28, like Matthew 10

So then Yes, the Apostles were commanded by the Lord in Matthew 28:19-20 KJV to go baptize Gentiles?

It doesn't distinctly say that either. The "all nations" has some ambiguity to it.

Regardless, this commission was given to the twelve apostles that will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The idea that this commission is "universal" for "all believers" is a just a myth of Churchianity.

 

[DougE]

So you're saying that the then future Apostles were commanded by the Lord in Matthew 28:19-20 KJV to go baptize Gentiles?

Hello

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

That is what this verse says

 

[DougE]

So you're saying that the then future Apostles were commanded by the Lord in Matthew 28:19-20 KJV to go baptize Gentiles?

Hello

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

That is what this verse says

 

[DougE]

So you're saying that the then future Apostles were commanded by the Lord in Matthew 28:19-20 KJV to go baptize Gentiles?

Hello

What do you mean the future Apostles?

The eleven Apostles named in the "gospels" were commissioned to go to the Gentiles

 

[Idolater]

Hello

Hello.

What do you mean the future Apostles?

RD corrected me there. Matthew 28:19 KJV is their great commission, and so it is also their great commissioning, and thus the moment they became the Apostles in the sense in which they were the supreme pastors of the whole entire Church /Body of Christ.

The eleven Apostles named in the "gospels" were commissioned to go to the Gentiles

I know, right?

 

[Idolater]

The scripture doesn't actually say that. Where did you get that idea?

Why do you ask facetious questions?

Luke seems to disagree with you:

Luk 6:13 KJV And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;​

Yes, when did He name them Apostles? That's what we're talking about, that's the question.

Apostles are messengers and Jesus sent them out with a message long before Matthew 28, like Matthew 10

So the 70 you would say are 'apostles' in the same sense as the 12 Apostles are 'apostles' then. We know who some of them were. And we know that the actual Apostles were treated like gods, including Paul.

It doesn't distinctly say that either. The "all nations" has some ambiguity to it.

Regardless, this commission was given to the twelve apostles that will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The idea that this commission is "universal" for "all believers" is a just a myth of Churchianity.

If Matthew 28:19 KJV means "Go baptize Gentiles," then Dispensationalism is DOA and I think you know that. So you cannot hold to the view that it's unclear what the Lord meant here, it must mean something along the lines of, "Gentiles who bless Israel, not only baptize them, but also circumcise them into the Kingdom of David," right? There isn't a possibility in your mind that Matthew 28:19 KJV means "Go baptize Gentiles," right? It can't even be conceivable for you, correct? Dispensationalism would be DOA if Matthew 28:19 KJV means "Go Baptize Gentiles." It must mean, "Go to all nations where the House of Israel are, and baptize them," right? If Matthew 28:19 KJV means "Baptize Gentiles" then Dispensationalism is dead on its feet.

I know that doesn't mean Dispensationalist pastors stop teaching Dispensationalism this Sunday, but it is definitely completely false if Matthew 28:19 KJV = "Baptize Gentiles."

Hello

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

That is what this verse says

Hello

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

That is what this verse says

tyvm Doug E.

 

[csuguy]

...
The eleven disciples, were once again, the only ones who were given this commandment. They were to go and preach the gospel of the kingdom. The gospel of the coming kingdom on earth, in which Christ will reign along with the disciples. They were not preaching Paul's gospel.
...
The commissions were given to the disciples only. They were to go unto the nations, the Gentiles. The body of Christ are to go to all men, to exhort that all be reconciled to God, through The Lord Jesus Christ. The body of Christ, the church, in this dispensation, are ambasadors of Christ to all.

Incorrect.

Matthew 28:18-20 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”​

First problem with your analysis: it doesn't say make disciples of the nations, but ALL nations. ALL nations would include Israel & the Gentiles. But perhaps this is what you mean and I am misreading you?

Second problem with your analysis: the Great Commission is a command. While he is immediately speaking to the disciples, Jesus tells them to to teach the disciples of ALL nations to obey the his commands (which, in turn, fulfills the Law). Therefore they are to teach the disciples of ALL nations to obey the Great Commission as well.

Finally: the above conflicts with your Dispensationalism. Even if, for the sake of argument, we suppose the Great Commission is for the gentiles only, now you are saying that Jesus is telling the gentiles to obey the commandments. Not a problem for me - but a problem for you who rejects God's Law.

 

[DougE]

Hello.
RD corrected me there. Matthew 28:19 KJV is their great commission, and so it is also their great commissioning, and thus the moment they became the Apostles in the sense in which they were the supreme pastors of the whole entire Church /Body of Christ.
I know, right?

Hi

Ok But one thing... Christ is head over the body of Christ and Paul is the Apostle. The eleven/twelve Apostles are not in the body of Christ nor pastors or Apostles of it.

 

[Right Divider]

Why do you ask facetious questions?

There was nothing the slightest bit facetious in that question.

The scripture does NOT say that they BECAME apostles in Matthew 28. So where did you get the idea? It's a simple and honest question.

Yes, when did He name them Apostles? That's what we're talking about, that's the question.

As I showed you from scripture, it appears to be several years before Matthew 28. It says that the Lord Jesus Christ "called them and named them apostles" at the same time, on a day long before Matthew 28

Luk 6:13 KJV And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;​

Again, I told you that an apostle is a messenger and the Lord Jesus Christ sent THESE SAME apostles out with a message in Matthew 10. Matthew even calls them apostles in that same passage.

So the 70 you would say are 'apostles' in the same sense as the 12 Apostles are 'apostles' then.

No, I would not say that they are apostles in the same sense as the twelve apostles that will sit on twelve throne judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The Lord Jesus Christ clearly gave the TWELVE a special place among His apostles.

We know who some of them were. And we know that the actual Apostles were treated like gods, including Paul.

Irrelevant to when they twelve BECAME apostles.

If Matthew 28:19 KJV means "Go baptize Gentiles," then Dispensationalism is DOA and I think you know that.

I never said that it means "Go baptize Gentiles". My opinion is that the Lord Jesus Christ was referring to His other sheep scattered among the nations.

So you cannot hold to the view that it's unclear what the Lord meant here, it must mean something along the lines of, "Gentiles who bless Israel, not only baptize them, but also circumcise them into the Kingdom of David," right? There isn't a possibility in your mind that Matthew 28:19 KJV means "Go baptize Gentiles," right? It can't even be conceivable for you, correct? Dispensationalism would be DOA if Matthew 28:19 KJV means "Go Baptize Gentiles." It must mean, "Go to all nations where the House of Israel are, and baptize them," right? If Matthew 28:19 KJV means "Baptize Gentiles" then Dispensationalism is dead on its feet.

All irrelevant to my reply to you.

I know that doesn't mean Dispensationalist pastors stop teaching Dispensationalism this Sunday, but it is definitely completely false if Matthew 28:19 KJV = "Baptize Gentiles."

tyvm Doug E.

Your quoting is quite confused.

The primary point of all of this is that the commission given in Matthew 28 was given to THOSE apostles (eleven at the time, to be restored to twelve very shortly thereafter). To claim that this is somehow a "universal commission" given to "all believers" is anti-scriptural. As Steko has mentioned, there are FIVE accounts of this same "commission". They must all be considered together and each one cannot be taken as if it is independent of the rest.

But that is pretty much the way that Churchianity "teaches" the Bible... in little isolated fragments with lots of "embellishment".

 

[Aimiel]

No, I'm not.

You need to prove your case. The scripture says that Jesus gave that command to eleven people (to be restored to 12 later).


Nope... your distractions change nothing. That command was not given to you. You just want so badly to be a part of it that you claim that it is.

I don't believe that the twelve could preach to the entirety of humanity.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

We are appointed to preach. If you don't want to preach the gospel, that's not my fault or God's. You WERE commissioned. You know the Truth.

 

[Right Divider]

I don't believe that the twelve could preach to the entirety of humanity.

That is completely irrelevant. What you believe has no bearing on what the text clearly says.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Once again, this is irrelevant to the text which clearly states to whom Christ gave that commission.

We are appointed to preach. If you don't want to preach the gospel, that's not my fault or God's. You WERE commissioned. You know the Truth.

WE in Matthew 28 does not include you.

I preach the gospel of the grace of God all the time. You should join us.

 

[TrumpTrainCA]

MATTHEW 28 IS IT OUR COMMISSION

No. It is for the apostles and their successors only.

 

[Right Divider]

No. It is for the apostles and their successors only.

Who were their successors? The scripture does not record any such succession.

As a matter of fact, they replaced Judas quickly to make them twelve again. Twelve was important for them

But later, when James was killed [murdered actually] (Acts 12), there is no mention of a replacement. If there was to be a constant succession, this is a glaring omission. "The twelve" are frequently mentioned with respect to their mission and commission. But after James was murdered, there is almost no mention of "the twelve" apart from references to history (like Paul in 1 Cor 15:5).

 

[Aimiel]

That is completely irrelevant.

Of course it isn't. It is clear that we are to preach and when He spoke to the twelve: He was speaking to everyone of the household of faith. We are one.

What you believe has no bearing on what the text clearly says.

Same goes for you. I don't see that your interpretation keeps with clear Scriptural doctrine.

WE in Matthew 28 does not include you.

Why not? Those to whom He was speaking were believers. I'm a believer. Nowhere does Scripture say that we cannot have faith in what Christ spoke.

 

[Right Divider]

Of course it isn't. It is clear that we are to preach and when He spoke to the twelve: He was speaking to everyone of the household of faith.

You can keep pushing your philosophy, but you do not listen to what the scripture plainly and clearly says.

We are one.Same goes for you. I don't see that your interpretation keeps with clear Scriptural doctrine.

More unfounded opinions.

Why not? Those to whom He was speaking were believers.

You continue to use fallacious reasoning. Just because those that He was speaking to were believers does NOT means that He is speaking to ALL believers.

Noah was a believer... are you building an ark?

I'm a believer. Nowhere does Scripture say that we cannot have faith in what Christ spoke.

:juggle:
Fallacious reasoning again. How's that ark coming?

 

[Aimiel]

Whatever. Believe what you want. I'll follow Scripture.

 

[Right Divider]

Whatever. Believe what you want. I'll follow Scripture.

I believe the Bible. You say you do, but you don't.

It's easy for us all to see, but you can't see your problem with fallacious logic.