Hi
It will not be the same system as now.
There will be a new heavens and earth.
MATTHEW 24:3 THE SIGN OF THY COMING
- Thread starter DougE
- Start date
Hi
It will not be the same system as now.
There will be a new heavens and earth.
Apple7
New member
Adding context…
For, brothers, you became imitators of the assemblies of God being in Judea in Christ Jesus, because you also suffered these things by your own fellow countrymen, as they did also by the Jews, who both killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, also having driven us out, and not pleasing God, and being contrary to all men, hindering us from speaking to the nations in order that they be saved, to the filling up of their sins always. But the wrath to the end is come on them. But, brothers, we being taken away from you for an hour's time, in presence, not in heart, we were much more eager with much desire to see your face. Because of this, we desired to come to you, truly I, Paul, both once and twice; but Satan hindered us. (1 Thes 2.14 – 18)
As we can see by adding context, this ‘hindering’ is applied to what the Jews (plural) did in obstructing the spread of the Gospel.
Obviously, since Satan cannot possess more than one person at a time, then this can only apply to the work of his demons, and not himself, as he is bound during this time.
Apple7
New member
The context of 2 Cor 11 informs the reader that Satan is not present himself in the world, but, instead, his presentment is in his demons as detailed in the context of 2 Cor 11.12 – 15.
Apple7
New member
When Satan, who is presently bound today, is released from his prison, then that is THE SIGN of the end times.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
No, that is not what the verses say because they refer specifically to Satan. In fact, the verses make it plain that Paul is comparing Satan's ministers to Satan himself:
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (2 Cor.2:13-15).
The words "is transfomed" is in the present tense.
Apple7
New member
The Greek verb, μετασχηματίζεται, literally means 'to change outward appearance after a change.'
Thus...what change occurred to Satan that caused him to change his outward appearance?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
His appearance before others is changed because he poses as a minister of righteousness despite the fact that he is anything but. One of the meanings of the Greek word is "to disguise."
Apple7
New member
That does not answer the question of why Satan needed to change his outward appearance because of a prior event.
What was the prior event?
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Your original comment was:
You made a distinction between the spiritual church (those seated in heavenly places), and the remnant of Israel who will enter a physical kingdom reigning over worldly nations.
Now you are trying to say there is no difference between Christians and Israeli remnant believers. Which is it?
Later Edit: And by the way, it is not Paul's gospel, it is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Again, one of the meanings of the Greek word is "to disguise." That word means " to give (someone or oneself) a different appearance in order to conceal one's identity."
Satan is disguising himself as an angel of light so others will not know who he really is..
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (2 Cor.2:13-15).
The word translated "is transformed" is in the "present tense" so at the time Paul wrote his second epistle to the church at Corinth Satan was busy disguising himself into an angel of light so others would not know his true identity.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Paul referred to it as "my gospel" (Ro.2:16, 16:25, 2 Tim.2:8).
Apple7
New member
What he really is, is bound.
Satan cannot make it in person, as he did before The Cross, as he is bound, and can only deal with humanity through his free-ranging demons.
You just showed that the 'servants' of Satan, do the bidding of Satan, as he cannot appear, himself, in person.
Scripture is full of examples of Satan possessing peeps BEFORE The Cross....but NEVER after The Cross.
Simple Biblical Truth.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You obviously do not understand the meaning of the "present" tense.
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (2 Cor.11:13-15).
At the time Paul wrote his second epistle to the church at Corinth Satan was busy disguising himself into an angel of light so others would not know his true identity. Paul wrote that Satan "himself" is transformed into an angel of light.
Hello
Israel and the body of Christ are saved by faith in Christ unto eternal life. There is no difference only in regard to salvation to eternal life.
That is not the same thing as talking about our inheritance. Us to heaven... Israel into the kingdom on earth. God was reconciling heaven and earth.
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, Romans 16:25
Apple7
New member
The tense of the word in question is already comprehended in his binding.
Please show us where Satan EVER makes a personal appearance AFTER The Cross, like he did BEFORE the Cross.
As the passage states, this is no great thing, as this is what his servants (demons) are doing already.
Satan's 'power' is his demons, as he has no power of his own today.
Satan is bound, and has been left impotent, as per scripture.
Apple7
New member
Satan is most assuredly bound today.
To say otherwise is to diminish what Jesus did for you at The Cross, and to elevate Satan to a level that he most assuredly does not deserve.
We are in the 1k reign right now.
You have mis-read Rev 20.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So even though he is already bound he was doing the following at the time when Paul wrote his second epistle to the church at Corinth?:
"for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
As I said earlier, the Greek word translated "is transformed" is in the present tense. In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:
"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."
So at the time when Paul wrote this epistle Satam was transformed into an angel of light. That is what is meant by being "viewed as occurring in actual time." According to you Satan was doing that when He was bound in the Abyss.
Satan will not be bound until the following happens at the battle of Armageddon (Rev.16:13-16):
"And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended" (Rev.20:1-3).
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Ok, thanks for the clarification.
Now, you have stated above that there are 2 agendas regarding inheritance but not salvation. There is 1 agenda for salvation which leads to 2 different inheritances.
Do the Jews inherit eternal life? Or do they only inherit the kingdom on earth? And are the Jews, upon being saved, a part of the body of Christ or not? Let's say Peter, for example. He was a Jew. Where is his inheritance and is/was he a part of the body of Christ?
Or is it just the Jews that are converted when Jesus comes back that are included in the earthly inheritance?
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
With regard to the incorrect view of some that the gospel of Paul was different than the gospel of Jesus, I can only say that I believe this to be a fabrication driven, not by scripture rightly divided but, by way of validating dispensationalist doctrine at all costs.
The word gospel means good news. This good news can take many forms and be presented differently to different groups depending on their backgrounds and the personality of the presenter, but it is always centered on Jesus Christ. When Paul says "my gospel" he is designating his specific ministry which was to flesh out the gospel of grace alone by faith alone.
He also specifies that it is Jesus' gospel. Rom 1:1-3KJV
A servant of Jesus Christ would not have a different message from his Master.