Martin Luther Comments on Free Will

[beloved57]

Faith is not really a work.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that faith is a work that saves.

Jesus is the savior, not our works or our faith.

The Gospel is such a great thing that God has done in Jesus Christ to not respond to it is to sentence yourself to eternal damnation.

Which you have already done.

Faith is a work, a work of the Law Matt 23:23 and you don't believe the Gospel anyway !

 

[Robert Pate]

It's the question that stops a great many conversation about merit and grace.

One man stands up in a Church at the alter call and rushes toward salvation and grace. The fellow who went with him scoffs and turns away.

Why? What distinguishes between the two men and their disparate acts of will? Why is it that some men, like Lewis, can consider God and move toward Him and others can consider the question and turn away?

Its a pride thing.

Its a humbling thing to confess that you are a needy sinner and call on Christ to save you.

Men like to think that they can participate in their own salvation.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Its a pride thing.

Its a humbling thing to confess that you are a needy sinner and call on Christ to save you.

Men like to think that they can participate in their own salvation.

So you were more humble and less prideful than your neighbor who does not see the need to call upon the Lord?

If you do not think you participated in your salvation, how was it wrought for you then?

AMR

 

[bybee]

It's the question that stops a great many conversation about merit and grace.

One man stands up in a Church at the alter call and rushes toward salvation and grace. The fellow who went with him scoffs and turns away.

Why? What distinguishes between the two men and their disparate acts of will? Why is it that some men, like Lewis, can consider God and move toward Him and others can consider the question and turn away?

I have no answers, only thanksgiving for the one and prayers for the other!
Well said... as usual!

 

[DAN P]

So you were more humble and less prideful than your neighbor who does not see the need to call upon the Lord?

If you do not think you participated in your salvation, how was it wrought for you then?

AMR

Hi , AMR , and how were you saved , under Covenant theology , if that is what you believe in ??

How did you participate ??

Give a verse !!

dan p

 

[TulipBee]

Hi , AMR , and how were you saved , under Covenant theology , if that is what you believe in ??

How did you participate ??

Give a verse !!

dan p

You mean "how did you cooperate?"

 

[Robert Pate]

So you were more humble and less prideful than your neighbor who does not see the need to call upon the Lord?

If you do not think you participated in your salvation, how was it wrought for you then?

AMR

Jesus Christ in my name and on my behalf, has offered to God the Father all that was needed for my salvation.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Its a pride thing.

Its a humbling thing to confess that you are a needy sinner and call on Christ to save you.

Men like to think that they can participate in their own salvation.

So you were more humble and less prideful than your neighbor who does not see the need to call upon the Lord?

If you do not think you participated in your salvation, how was it wrought for you then?

AMR

Jesus Christ in my name and on my behalf, has offered to God the Father all that was needed for my salvation.

Robert,

What do you mean here exactly? Earlier you noted that humility and less pride were factors in your salvation in that you were able to call upon the Lord. Yet, you also state "men like to think they can participate in their own salvation". How do you reconcile these statements?

Using your own words above, I would ask why did not Jesus Christ in your neighbor's name on his behalf, offer to God the Father all that was needed for your neighbor's salvation? After all, you state Jesus Christ did this for you and you apparently affirmed above you did not participate in your own salvation. What then lies behind you being chosen and not your neighbor?

I am sincerely interested in understanding your view more fully with the four questions above.

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert,

What do you mean here exactly? Earlier you noted that humility and less pride were factors in your salvation in that you were able to call upon the Lord. Yet, you also state "men like to think they can participate in their own salvation". How do you reconcile these statements?

Using your own words above, I would ask why did not Jesus Christ in your neighbor's name on his behalf, offer to God the Father all that was needed for your neighbor's salvation? After all, you state Jesus Christ did this for you and you apparently affirmed above you did not participate in your own salvation. What then lies behind you being chosen and not your neighbor?

I am sincerely interested in understanding your view more fully with the four questions above.

AMR

No one is chosen. Salvation is offered to all as a free gift from God, Ephesians 2:8.

If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask Christ to save you.

"Whosoever that calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Jesus Christ as our representative provides salvation for all. But its not yours if you don't receive it.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he the power to become the Sons of God, even to them that believe upon his name" John 1:12.

Did you get that? Salvation is GIVEN not imposed, to all who do nothing more that believe upon his name.

 

[DAN P]

You mean "how did you cooperate?"

Hi , and AMR did not respond as to my question !

Since he is a believer in a Covenant / Diatheke , I want to know what COVENANT /DIATHEKE he is talking about and how Gentiles can be saved by a Covenant !!

I wonder when he will answer , so I will not hold my breath !!

He might be on the phone with R C Spourl !!

dan p

 

[bybee]

Hi , and AMR did not respond as to my question !

Since he is a believer in a Covenant / Diatheke , I want to know what COVENANT /DIATHEKE he is talking about and how Gentiles can be saved by a Covenant !!

I wonder when he will answer , so I will not hold my breath !!

Hr might be on the phone with R C Spourl !!

dan p

Never underestimate AMR! He is one of the wisest men who post on this site!
He knows that my theology is different on some points from his but we are both Christians and I admire him greatly.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

No one is chosen. Salvation is offered to all as a free gift from God, Ephesians 2:8.

If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask Christ to save you.

"Whosoever that calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Jesus Christ as our representative provides salvation for all. But its not yours if you don't receive it.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he the power to become the Sons of God, even to them that believe upon his name" John 1:12.

Did you get that? Salvation is GIVEN not imposed, to all who do nothing more that believe upon his name.

Robert,

Thank you for responding. I am really trying to understand your view.

Earlier you noted that humility and less pride were factors in your salvation in that you were able to call upon the Lord. Yet, you also state "men like to think they can participate in their own salvation". How do you reconcile these statements?

Using your own words earlier, I would ask why did not Jesus Christ in your neighbor's name on his behalf, offer to God the Father all that was needed for your neighbor's salvation? After all, you state Jesus Christ did this for you and you apparently affirmed above you did not participate in your own salvation. What then lies behind you being chosen and not your neighbor?

What, in your opinion, is your direct answer to my questions?

Now you state:

"If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask Christ to save you."

"Salvation is GIVEN not imposed, to all who do nothing more that believe upon his name."

From the statements above, what do you mean by "Men like to think that they can participate in their own salvation"? Are you not participating in your own salvation if you "have to come to Christ" or
"do nothing more than believe upon his name"? What is this coming and doing you imply here?

What was it about you that made you "come to Christ" versus the other person who fails to do so? Is your answer the matters of pride and humility you spoke of here? Or, is your answer "I chose rightly and the other person did not?"

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Hi , AMR , and how were you saved..?

Dan P,

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I assume your question is not some tu quoque tactic so I have not ignored your question, which I will happily answer soon.

I would really like to bottom out with Robert on his views beforehand, as it is refreshing to find someone willing to answer some direct questions on the topic.

AMR

 

[chrysostom]

Hi , AMR , and how were you saved ,

Dan P,

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I assume your question is not some tu quoque tactic so I have not ignored your question, which I will happily answer soon.

I would really like to bottom out with Robert on his views beforehand, as it is refreshing to find someone willing to answer some direct questions on the topic.

AMR

it will be even more refreshing when you answer the question

 

[TulipBee]

Dan P,

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I assume your question is not some tu quoque tactic so I have not ignored your question, which I will happily answer soon.

I would really like to bottom out with Robert on his views beforehand, as it is refreshing to find someone willing to answer some direct questions on the topic.

AMR

There are no bottoms in reprobates. They are continously drowning in their own theologies in the bottomless pits.

 

[chrysostom]

There are no bottoms in reprobates. They are continously drowning in their own theologies in the bottomless pits.

can you answer the question?

how were you saved?

 

[TulipBee]

Hi , and AMR did not respond as to my question !

Since he is a believer in a Covenant / Diatheke , I want to know what COVENANT /DIATHEKE he is talking about and how Gentiles can be saved by a Covenant !!

I wonder when he will answer , so I will not hold my breath !!

Hr might be on the phone with R C Spourl !!

dan p

There are no answers in man made arminian questions.
Only a loop.
Pate and his suckers loops in his theology when backed into a corner.
they run out of text proofs and then defaults back to the beginning of the loop and tries agian on new suckers.

Reprobates lives on loopy lane

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert,

Thank you for responding. I am really trying to understand your view.

Earlier you noted that humility and less pride were factors in your salvation in that you were able to call upon the Lord. Yet, you also state "men like to think they can participate in their own salvation". How do you reconcile these statements?

Using your own words earlier, I would ask why did not Jesus Christ in your neighbor's name on his behalf, offer to God the Father all that was needed for your neighbor's salvation? After all, you state Jesus Christ did this for you and you apparently affirmed above you did not participate in your own salvation. What then lies behind you being chosen and not your neighbor?

What, in your opinion, is your direct answer to my questions?

Now you state:

"If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask Christ to save you."

"Salvation is GIVEN not imposed, to all who do nothing more that believe upon his name."

From the statements above, what do you mean by "Men like to think that they can participate in their own salvation"? Are you not participating in your own salvation if you "have to come to Christ" or
"do nothing more than believe upon his name"? What is this coming and doing you imply here?

What was it about you that made you "come to Christ" versus the other person who fails to do so? Is your answer the matters of pride and humility you spoke of here? Or, is your answer "I chose rightly and the other person did not?"

AMR

It is quite obvious that you do not believe in salvation by grace through faith.

You cannot believe the Gospel so your only hope is to be appointed salvation. Which God does not do. If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner.

This is what Paul meant when he said... "Whosoever that calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

All of the questions that you ask are found in the scriptures. But instead of reading the Bible you read The Canons of Dort or something else that supports Calvinism.

If you had the Holy Spirit you would know that Christ and Christ alone is our savior and that it is by faith in him that we are saved.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

It is quite obvious that you do not believe in salvation by grace through faith.

You cannot believe the Gospel so your only hope is to be appointed salvation. Which God does not do. If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner.

This is what Paul meant when he said... "Whosoever that calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

All of the questions that you ask are found in the scriptures. But instead of reading the Bible you read The Canons of Dort or something else that supports Calvinism.

If you had the Holy Spirit you would know that Christ and Christ alone is our savior and that it is by faith in him that we are saved.

Robert,

It would have been helpful to all had you answered my questions directly. They were not that difficult or you could have just answered "I do not know how I came to be saved." Your response above is evasive and telling.

For example,

What was it about you that made you "come to Christ" versus the other person who fails to do so? Is your answer the matters of pride and humility you spoke of here? Or, is your answer "I chose rightly and the other person did not?"

AMR

 

[beloved57]

It is quite obvious that you do not believe in salvation by grace through faith.

You cannot believe the Gospel so your only hope is to be appointed salvation. Which God does not do. If you want to be saved you will have to come to Christ as a repentant sinner.

This is what Paul meant when he said... "Whosoever that calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

All of the questions that you ask are found in the scriptures. But instead of reading the Bible you read The Canons of Dort or something else that supports Calvinism.

If you had the Holy Spirit you would know that Christ and Christ alone is our savior and that it is by faith in him that we are saved.

One has to be saved in order to call upon the name of the Lord ! That is an act of Faith, of believing Rom 10:14

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Those in the flesh cannot believe because , that pleases God Heb 11:6, and those in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So quite frankly Rom 10:13 is not anyone unregenerated and still in the flesh !:nono: