ECT MADists don't follow Paul

[Right Divider]

I thought Radar's first name was Walter...

Might be his dad or grandpa or something.

 

[john w]

He does take off on Ernest T quite a bit, but I think he's okay.

Imagine he is country club material? Reckon his golf score is improving, going up? I see AT&T is off $.15 today, in light trading.

 

[tetelestai]

Since the names of the 7 churches are in the list I would go by the very last one that was established and then try to reason when they were in a state of decline as described in the letters to the 7 churches.

Then see if it matches the description in the Things they are being told they are doing correct vrs. incorrect by Christ in Revelation. then see if it matches their state when Paul was writing to them and sending brethren back and forth with letters to see if it matches.

If Paul was keeping them arranged/corrected up till then the state
described in several places in the letter to the seven churches is in a state of decline and so Jesus gives them correction. Some of them are still doing things correct and are told it is good.

In Revelation 2, the church at Ephesus was praised for hating the Nicolatans. Jesus also said He hated the Nicolaitans.

(Rev 2:6) ... You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

According to some of the early church fathers, the Nicolaitans were followers of Nicolas found in Acts 6:5

(Acts 6:5) This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism.

If you notice the list above, all the men chosen were Jews except for Nicolas.

Nicolas was a pagan Gentile who converted to Judaism, then converted to Christianity, then converted to something else that Christ Jesus hated.

Chronologically, this all works out.

 

[whitestone]

In Revelation 2, the church at Ephesus was praised for hating the Nicolatans. Jesus also said He hated the Nicolaitans.

(Rev 2:6) ... You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

According to some of the early church fathers, the Nicolaitans were followers of Nicolas found in Acts 6:5

(Acts 6:5) This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism.

If you notice the list above, all the men chosen were Jews except for Nicolas.

Nicolas was a pagan Gentile who converted to Judaism, then converted to Christianity, then converted to something else that Christ Jesus hated.

Chronologically, this all works out.

Fantastic,then at least by the time Acts 6:5 KJV took place Nicolas was still a christian and so JTB cannot be the author of Revelation,unless it's a different Nicolas church fathers argue it was not,some say it was.

In ad 62 or so in the epistle to the Colossians all is well Paul praises them on their faith and has the letter exchange so all is well up till ad62 Laodicieans,,Ephesus ,,,Thou must prophesy "again" Revelation 10:11 KJV ,,,so it's taken place once,and needs to take place again,so after someone else already has.

 

[tetelestai]

Fantastic,then at least by the time Acts 6:5 KJV took place Nicolas was still a christian and so JTB cannot be the author of Revelation,unless it's a different Nicolas church fathers argue it was not,some say it was.

That's correct.

Hardly anyone claims JTB is the author of Revelation. Most people think it was John the Apostle.

In ad 62 or so in the epistle to the Colossians all is well Paul praises then on their faith and has the letter exchange so all is well up till ad62 Laodicieans,,Ephesus ,,,

Colossae was near Laodicea, and about 100 miles from Ephesus, but not one of the seven churches.

Thou must prophesy "again" ,,,so it's taken place once,and needs to take place again,so after someone else already has.

Towards the end of Paul's life, Paul, in his last epistle, said the following about Asia Minor:

(2 Tim 1:15) You know that everyone in the province of Asia has deserted me, including Phygelus and Hermogenes.

2 Timothy was probably written around 65-67AD

So, this tells us there were no churches in Asia Minor.

Again, from a chronological standpoint, that makes sense.

 

[whitestone]

That's correct.

Hardly anyone claims JTB is the author of Revelation. Most people think it was John the Apostle.



Colossae was near Laodicea, and about 100 miles from Ephesus, but not one of the seven churches.



Towards the end of Paul's life, Paul, in his last epistle, said the following about Asia Minor:

(2 Tim 1:15) You know that everyone in the province of Asia has deserted me, including Phygelus and Hermogenes.

2 Timothy was probably written around 65-67AD

So, this tells us there were no churches in Asia Minor.

Again, from a chronological standpoint, that makes sense.

well if Revelation was written to the 7 churches after this point ad65-67 then it doesn't tell us that there were no churches,,it tells us they had deserted Paul by ad 65-67 ,,,,he would shortly die and then they would have the letters to the 7 churches sent to them because Paul was no longer there.

But if they existed up to at least ad65-67 and Revelations was written to them as correction after this point,then they still existed afterward.

The point is though they were just fine up to 65-67,and fell(those who were rebuked in rev.) and some were still in good standing at the time rev. was written. either way it was not written until after Paul and peter died.

 

[tetelestai]

well if Revelation was written to the 7 churches after this point ad65-67

Revelation was written many years before 65-70AD.

then it doesn't tell us that there were no churches,,it tells us they had deserted Paul by ad 65-67

You are correct. I stand corrected on that one.

,,,,he would shortly die and then they would have the letters to the 7 churches sent to them because Paul was no longer there.

I believe the letters were sent to the seven churches long before Paul died.

But if they existed up to at least ad65-67 and Revelations was written to them as correction after this point,then they still existed afterward.

See above, the letters were written to the seven churches many years before 65-67AD

either way it was not written until after Paul and peter died.

I disagree.

Going back to 2 Cor 2, Paul knew about John being caught up to the third heaven many years before 65-67AD

 

[whitestone]

John might be whats the hangup,,,look at the post where I gave the math a few post back, John and Paul did not know each other,at that time,, #888

 

[tetelestai]

John might be whats the hangup,,,look at the post where I gave the math a few post back, John and Paul did not know each other,at that time,, #888

Read my post about how Paul could have met John the day before he wrote 2 Cor, and still said "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago....."

For some reason, you keep thinking the verse has to mean Paul met John 14 years before Paul wrote 2 Cor.

That's not what the verse says.

 

[whitestone]

Read my post about how Paul could have met John the day before he wrote 2 Cor, and still said "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago....."

For some reason, you keep thinking the verse has to mean Paul met John 14 years before Paul wrote 2 Cor.

That's not what the verse says.

see Acts 9:26 KJV they were skeered to death of Paul,,,

 

[whitestone]

Read my post about how Paul could have met John the day before he wrote 2 Cor, and still said "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago....."

For some reason, you keep thinking the verse has to mean Paul met John 14 years before Paul wrote 2 Cor.

That's not what the verse says.

what post #,,

 

[tetelestai]

see Acts 9:26 KJV they were skeered to death of Paul,,,

You said Paul wrote 2 Cor around 56AD

That would mean Paul had to meet John no earlier than 42AD to hear about John's Revelation, but no later than 56AD (56 - 14 = 42) for Paul to say "I knew a man in Christ who fourteen years ago...."

The Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 took place in 48AD. Paul could have met John there, or any other time between 42AD and 56AD.

 

[tetelestai]

what post #,,

#890

Here is what I said:

Paul doesn't say he met John 14 years ago. Paul says that what happened to John was 14 years ago.

Hypothetically, Paul could have met John the day before he wrote 2 Corinthians, and said "I know a man in Christ WHO fourteen years ago...."

 

[whitestone]

You said Paul wrote 2 Cor around 56AD

That would mean Paul had to meet John no earlier than 42AD to hear about John's Revelation, but no later than 56AD. (56 - 14 = 42) for Paul to say "I knew a man in Christ who fourteen years ago...."

The Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 took place in 48AD. Paul could have met John there, or any other time between 42AD and 56AD.

so if Herod died in ad44 Acts 12:23 KJV then in Acts 9:26 none of the disciples trust him,,,do you think John would have told him something that precious?

 

[whitestone]

You said Paul wrote 2 Cor around 56AD

That would mean Paul had to meet John no earlier than 42AD to hear about John's Revelation, but no later than 56AD (56 - 14 = 42) for Paul to say "I knew a man in Christ who fourteen years ago...."

The Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 took place in 48AD. Paul could have met John there, or any other time between 42AD and 56AD.

so if John was at the council in ad48,,,14 years before is ad34 before Saul became Paul,,,

 

[tetelestai]

so if Herod died in ad44 Acts 12:23 KJV then in Acts 9:26 none of the disciples trust him

Acts 12 didn't come before Acts 9

Acts 9:26 was in 34AD

Acts 12:26 was 44AD.

The Apostles didn't trust Paul in 34AD.

I had to be between 42AD and 56AD that John told Paul about the revelation given to him while on Patmos.

,,,do you think John would have told him something that precious?

Of course, that's why Paul tells about it in 2 Cor 12

 

[whitestone]

First off, how do you know which John wrote Revelation?

John the Baptist, John the Apostle, John the father of Simon Peter, John Mark, John the Elder?



Paul doesn't say he met John 14 years ago. Paul says that what happened to John was 14 years ago.

Hypothetically, Paul could have met John the day before he wrote 2 Corinthians, and said "I know a man in Christ WHO fourteen years ago...."

http://www.datingthenewtestament.com/Corinthians.htm


so ad56-14 is ad42 the disciples were afraid of him in Acts 9:26 KJV

 

[john w]

Acts 12 didn't come before Acts 9

Acts 9:26 was in 34AD

Acts 12:26 was 44AD.

The Apostles didn't trust Paul in 34AD.

I had to be between 42AD and 56AD that John told Paul about the revelation given to him while on Patmos.



Of course, that's why Paul tells about it in 2 Cor 12

Plagiarism, again, as none of that is in the bible. You learned that from fallible men. Thus, Preterism is a false belief system, invented by fallible men. Why do you follow the teachings of men, Craigie?

Preterism suffers another "death knell!"


You taught us that.

 

[tetelestai]

so if John was at the council in ad48,,,14 years before is ad34 before Saul became Paul,,,

14 years ago was from when Paul wrote to the Corinthians in 2 Cor 12.

So, if 2 Cor 12 was written in 56AD, John was taken to the third heaven in 42AD.

However, there is no consensus when 2 Corinthians were written. Some say as early as 52AD, and some say as late as 65AD.

So, we're never going to pinpoint the exact year, but what Paul said in 2 Cor 12 about John being caught up to the third heaven fourteen years ago, makes perfect sense, and contradicts nothing.

 

[tetelestai]

http://www.datingthenewtestament.com/Corinthians.htm


so ad56-14 is ad42 the disciples were afraid of him in Acts 9:26 KJV

Acts 9 was 34AD

That means John had at least 8 years to no longer be afraid of Paul.