I'll second that AMEN!
ECT MADist thought for the day
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graceandpeace
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and, you are seconding, a LIE.
Tam:
My question was did the law of moses offer life.
The law of moses never offered life..it only POINTED TO WHAT COULD, Jesus.
Of itself/ the law only condemns.
That was it's ONLY purpose...we see how suptle lies are..in your post.
The law of moses NEVER offered life..it is the MINISTRATION OF DEATH...read the new covenant, that explains these things.
Tam:
My question was did the law of moses offer life.
The law of moses never offered life..it only POINTED TO WHAT COULD, Jesus.
Of itself/ the law only condemns.
That was it's ONLY purpose...we see how suptle lies are..in your post.
The law of moses NEVER offered life..it is the MINISTRATION OF DEATH...read the new covenant, that explains these things.
graceandpeace
New member
Do you know the difference between the law being a shadow of good things to come and not the REALITY itself?
graceandpeace
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Did any man ever keep it perfectly? (the law of moses), or did some keep it by faith where sin was not imputed, by looking forward to a new day; where salvation would be granted through a new covenant?
graceandpeace
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I agree..that was not my disagreement; it had no bearing, because it condemned man, so that God could then make a NEW covenant...which is THE PROMISE ITSELF...the law is good ONLY when used lawfully, you misuse it, like most on this board.
graceandpeace
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Tam:
Salvation has come to pass, through a new and LIVING way. It was not available until the new covenant, as written.
We do not await salvation...the promise was salvation; not the resurrection.
Where do you come up with such stuff?
Tam:
I dont have to wonder, I know what it is...I got down on my knees and sought God for the answer.
notreligus
New member
This Romans passage is a good summary.
Rom 5:6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Rom 5:11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
Rom 5:13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
Rom 5:16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Rom 5:19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. This is what I believe and it took me awhile to get here.
I believe that, as Paul states, sin could not be imputed without the Law. Christ fulfilled the Law and thus sin is imputed to Him. And because of His obedience His righteousness has been imputed to us!
What is this gift spoken of in the above passage? That is God's grace!
Christ came as God and He also came as man. He lived as a man but remained sinless. Everything about His life and His death were according to the Law. Because both His life and His death were perfect, He fulfilled the Law as no other could do. If not then we would have to say that Christ's own life resulted in unmerited favor shown to Him by the Father. I think we all know that is not true. This is what I believe is the fallacy about Covenant Theology which claims that God has always had a program of Grace in place.
I see so many Christians - like myself for so many years - struggling with this Law and Grace issue. The Law was not designed for pleasure but it was a disciplinarian. A price had to be paid for sins and these sins had to be paid for over and over again by means of animal sacrifices and rituals performed by the priests. We have now a Great High Priest over the Body of Christ in our Lord Jesus Christ. He is our mediator. He proclaims our righteousness and our innocence. We are to be led by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:14).
JonahofAkron
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If you stand in front of me, your shadow does not disappear....
graceandpeace
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no there was not.
graceandpeace
New member
It aint about me..try Jesus...when He stood in front of the law; there was no more room for shadows...but, if you insist He didnt fulfill it; ok..have at it.
Abraham came before the new covenant, for example.
JonahofAkron
New member
In what way did He fulfill it? I have a huge problem with the belief that 'Jesus did It so I don't have to'. Show me where He makes the claim that His inerrancy is what stops the Truth of God from existing. I find that the exact opposite Is true. It is His Perfection that He asks us to follow Him in.
The Law was not given by man, but by the Father. No matter how many times you yank the verses from their context, your point about one law from God and another from man is entirely illogical and unbiblical. It flies in the face of the historical record and makes a mockery of the very thing that Messiah is: truth.
JonahofAkron
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All that to say-He did, but how?
Excellent post, notreligus! :thumb:
I wasn't going to go there. but I do think the thread is pretty silly!
andyc
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You need to explain why.
So far no madist has attempted to offer a response. Stp stated that he didn't have an answer.
Your response suggests that it is a situation where there is no answer from a madist perspective, and could it be because it exposes a flaw in mad reasoning?
graceandpeace
New member
Abraham only had salvation by PROMISE, and never received it in his lifetime...heb. 11.
By looking forward to our day...when God added the law, 430 years after He preached the gospel to Abe, Abe too became a sinner..(there is no sin when there is no law), but Abe, knew of this, and he still looked forward to the new covenant by promise/ and was made perfect/saved; at the cross. heb 11.
graceandpeace
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Jesus rescued us from the law of moses to place us under the law of Christ. The law of moses/old covenant only works wrath; the law of Christ works peace and love and every other fruit of God.
The works we do are based on HIS working in us; via the holy spirit because faith worketh by love, and faith is the law of God/Jesus.
I would get ya some verses but, I have to get off here soon.....:thumb:
graceandpeace
New member
Notreligious:
What form of law are you referring to? It was LOVE that fulfilled the law, and faith worketh by love..not the law of moses.
God's law is faith...that worketh by love.
Mose's law is condemnation...and, it worketh wrath.
I just want to make sure you have the right form of law in place here, because this is what is deceiving alot of people.
Jesus gave us His life willingly...it was GRACE, and FAITH and LOVE in action. In fact HIS whole life was...HE was born under the letter, (law of moses), but He was never subject to IT; He did fulfill it...fulfill does not mean subject to, as many teach.
It is imperative to make it clear what form of law we think Jesus lived and died under.
He was NOT condemned, He never sinned.
No greater love hath a man than this to give up His life for His friends..now, that is GRACE.
We are called to walk as He walked..yet today, false teachings are leading many astray, because they are being taught that Jesus was under the law of moses...lies, lies lies.
What form of law are you referring to? It was LOVE that fulfilled the law, and faith worketh by love..not the law of moses.
God's law is faith...that worketh by love.
Mose's law is condemnation...and, it worketh wrath.
I just want to make sure you have the right form of law in place here, because this is what is deceiving alot of people.
Jesus gave us His life willingly...it was GRACE, and FAITH and LOVE in action. In fact HIS whole life was...HE was born under the letter, (law of moses), but He was never subject to IT; He did fulfill it...fulfill does not mean subject to, as many teach.
It is imperative to make it clear what form of law we think Jesus lived and died under.
He was NOT condemned, He never sinned.
No greater love hath a man than this to give up His life for His friends..now, that is GRACE.
We are called to walk as He walked..yet today, false teachings are leading many astray, because they are being taught that Jesus was under the law of moses...lies, lies lies.
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