Made Alive Together with Christ
- Thread starter Samie
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One who is spiritually dead is separate from Christ Who is our life (Col 3:4). So how can the person spiritually hear while yet spiritually dead? You are saying that a person while yet dead being separate from Christ, can do SOMETHING, while Christ said that one separate from Him can do NOTHING (John 15:5).
musterion
Well-known member
Cain was born as dead in sin as anyone since, yet he was fully capable of hearing and understanding God...and of obeying Him, had he chosen to do so.
If he is capable of doing spiritual deeds, like obeying God, then Cain was spiritually alive.
But if he was spiritually dead, as I suppose you say he was, then explain how one who is spiritually dead being separate from Christ, can do SOMETHING, when Christ Himself said that one separate from Him can do NOTHING (John 15:5).
musterion
Well-known member
You just ignored what I said and asked the same question twice.
Cain, according to Reformed theology, must have been born as literally "dead in sin" as everyone since Adam and Eve. That means he would have been just as unable to hear God without first being enabled, and definitely could not have believed nor obeyed Him without His enabling.
Yet there is nothing in the Bible to indicate that Cain was an exception or special case.
Why, then, was God wasting His time appealing to a "dead in sin" man who, if you're right, He had to know could neither hear Him nor obey Him?
God did not waste His time. Scriptures say that when Christ died, all died (2 Cor 5:14, 15), being His Body (Eph 2:11-19); and when He resurrected, we, His Body, were resurrected TOGETHER with Him (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13). Hence, people are born spiritually alive, all because of what God through Christ has done.
His ears work. He hears and he believes. After you believe,you receive his life.
musterion
Well-known member
You did not answer the question.
How did born-dead Cain hear and understand God? It was you who said,
Cain did.
How?
Because Cain was spiritually alive. Because if not then he was not able to hear and understand.
It is your dilemma saying Cain was spiritually dead yet he heard and understood God. So how?
Then the man is already spiritually alive otherwise he could not have heard and believed.
musterion
Well-known member
Circular reasoning based on a false premise.
Then Christ was wrong when He said separate from Him man can do NOTHING?
And you are right saying that while separate from Christ man can do SOMETHING: he can hear and believe?
Perseverance of the Saints (OSAS)
TULIP
"Those who fall away have never been thoroughly imbued with the knowledge of Christ but only had a slight and passing taste of it" ~John Calvin
Genesis 2
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Welcome to TOL. We have another non-Bible believing fraud.
It isn't my perseverance, it is his.
2 Timothy 2
13
If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself
musterion
Well-known member
Cain heard God, could have believed and obeyed, decided not to.
Zeke
Well-known member
The traditional false perception of that teaching rides again, that is not teaching two separated historic physical siblings, it foreshadowed Galatians 4:23-29 a precept upon precept upon precept taught through out the scripture concerning the conscience journey, Romans sevens also hints to this duality within man yet you presume Cain never existed in your own Psychosis, Matt 11:11 is still there to instruct beyond the veil as to what Jesus represented which was the innerman/spirit.