Mad but Im not pretrib

[serpentdove]

Tribulation saints pick up the baton where we left off (1 Thess 4:16).

I just ask that they make my bed daily--left 'em a little mint on my pillow (1 Co 9:24). :rapture:

 

[Clete]

Of any weight. I evened ordered a dvd and book combo called the great escape off jack van impe trying to see something i missed. I think pretrib arguments are really weak. Anytime i mention my concerns about it to my mom she gets horrified by my denial of pretrib. Like ive abandoned the faith. I have never been to a church where pretrib wasnt taught. And im 39 years old so ive been around a little bit. I told mom that my faith in Jesus sacrifice for me on the cross is secure. Dieing for my sins. But i dont think the Lord will be furious at me for not being pretrib. Ive tried hard to search the scriptures like a berean to see if these things are so. Trying to follow the Lord with the best doctrine i can understand from the bible.

The arguments for a pre-tribulation rapture are essentially the same as the arguments for Acts 9 Dispensationalism. Below is a link to the best teaching I've ever heard on the topic....

The Plot: Last Days

If you can't afford it, let me know.


Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[serpentdove]

i sure dont want to cause any strife with fellow believers, but also dont want to hide my head in the sand either.

The dirty rats hide in the sand. :dizzy: Lk 21:26 That's for them

not us. :straight:

 

[Danoh]

Why Pre-Trib?

Personally, the issue for me is the fact that the Body's is in Christ.

Passages like this one here...

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Are tied to this here...

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

And that is tied to this here...

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Which is this here...

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

In short...

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Unless anyone cares to post Scripture showing that God will pour out His wrath on His Son again.

Get clear on that first; for it is what the balance of "the form of" all of Paul's "sound words" are based on.

On the fact that...

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

 

[Swifty357]

I firmly believe the great tribulation is for Israel. The 7 years is the time of Jacobs trouble. Israel is the bride of Christ. We the body of Christ I understand we are not meant for wrath. But I still can't make up a doctrine of us being raptured pre trib with no scriptural justification. Maybe God will protect us like the 3 Hebrew boys in Daniel. Or maybe like noah God will keep us here but in the protection of the ark. Maybe it's our job to convert Israel during the tribulation

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[Swifty357]

I do wonder what would happen if a member of the body of Christ took the antichrist mark of the beast. I don't believe grace believers can lose our salvation. But taking the mark is guaranteed damnation . Christ would probably protect us so they can't get to us. We may be invisible from satan. Getting fed mana from heaven possibly


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[Swifty357]

Maybe we use the 7 years of Israel's tribulation to protect our families who don't know Christ. Preach to the gentile lost and cause Satan headaches since he won't be allowed to touch a hair on our head

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[Danoh]

Another note...the Post-Tribber views 1 Thessalonians 5 as a continuation of the end thought in chapter 4.

But it is not.

Rather, chapter 5 is a continuation of what Paul has been doing throughout by the time he gets to chapter 5.

He has been addressing various different issues througout.

These are all different issues...

4:1 Furthermore...

4:9 But as touching...

4:13 But I would not have you...

5:1 But of the times and seasons...

5:12 And we beseech you brethren...

And on and on that goes - notice...

1 Thessalonians

5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

5:16 Rejoice evermore.

5:17 Pray without ceasing.

5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

5:19 Quench not the Spirit.

5:20 Despise not propheswhere's

5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

5:25 Brethren, pray for us.

5:26 Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss.

5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.

He then ends all that with...

5:28 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

Say, where's my dear sister Totten - I'm sure she'll have a lot to say in defence of her Post-Trib view.

 

[serpentdove]

Maybe we use the 7 years of Israel's tribulation to protect our families who don't know Christ...

It will only be harder then (Re 20:4). :dizzy:

 

[Swifty357]

And we might minister to the elect of Israel so they don't fall for antichrist thinking its the first advent of messiah. We could preach christ to them so they won't be decieved. Helping them to be grafted back in the olive tree

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[Nang]

I do wonder what would happen if a member of the body of Christ took the antichrist mark of the beast. I don't believe grace believers can lose our salvation. But taking the mark is guaranteed damnation . Christ would probably protect us so they can't get to us. We may be invisible from satan. Getting fed mana from heaven possibly


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Very little of the visions recorded in the Book of Revelation should be read literally. The mark of the beast is spiritual unbelief. Pure and simple.

"Israel" is another name for Jesus Christ and His church body.

There is no rapture of the church taught in the bible. All the references used to purport that myth, speak of resurrections: both physical and spiritual.

And on and on it goes . . .

I am an Amillennialist, which means I do not believe in a literal 1000 year period of time, either.

Jesus Christ sits at the right hand of God and reigns over His Kingdom right now. He intercedes for His Saints in heaven, at this present time. I John 1:5-9

BIG SUBJECT and you are correct to question some of these stories that get tossed out, willy-nilly!

 

[Swifty357]

Show them all the prophecy Jesus fulfilled to the letter

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[SaulToPaul 2]

Very little of the visions recorded in the Book of Revelation should be read literally. The mark of the beast is spiritual unbelief. Pure and simple.

"Israel" is another name for Jesus Christ and His church body.

There is no rapture of the church taught in the bible. All the references used to purport that myth, speak of resurrections: both physical and spiritual.

And on and on it goes . . .

I am an Amillennialist, which means I do not believe in a literal 1000 year period of time, either.

Jesus Christ sits at the right hand of God and reigns over His Kingdom right now. He intercedes for His Saints in heaven, at this present time. I John 1:5-9

BIG SUBJECT and you are correct to question some of these stories that get tossed out, willy-nilly!

:chuckle:

 

[Swifty357]

Show how Daniel showed the exact time Jesus would be born

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[Danoh]

A thought, Swifty...yours is what happens when one over relies on a book about the Bible for one's understanding of things- including Stam's "Things That Differ."

One is left without a means of knowing how to soundly approach studying out any issue on one's own.

Worse, one gradually comes to view things from said books' perspectives.

When that fails in some area, one either ends up filling it in from said books' perspectives, or simply ends at the answer of speculation - of "perhaps this...maybe that..."

Just as book writers often do...

 

[Danoh]

:chuckle:

Add that a big fat...

:rotfl:

 

[Swifty357]

The book of revelations is very clear about Christ reigning for 1000 years on earth. Then Satan will be let loose at the very end to decieve some of the nations one last time. Jesus throws him in the lake of fire and burns this worlds elements up. Then we are with Jesus in the new heaven and earth forever. And we are allowed to eat from the tree of life. He will give us a new name and be our God forever

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[Swifty357]

No more tears or death. Death will be swallowed up in victory. He will give us our mansions he has been preparing for us. Lions and babies will lie down together. And Jesus will be our sun and light as the sun and moon will pass awAy. And the glory of Jesus Christ is our sole power supply.

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[serpentdove]

...[W]e might minister to the elect of Israel...

There is no

we.

We are gone. :rapture: Those Jews who will believe at that time are sealed. They evangelize the world (Re 7:4).

...

:listen: They don't listen to us. :blabla: Haven't you noticed? Ro 11:25 They will listen to Moses and Elijah (Mal 4:6). :bowser: :bowser:

 

[Nang]

The book of revelations is very clear about Christ reigning for 1000 years on earth.

Where is the "earth" mentioned in reference to Christ's reign?