ECT MAD 6: Kingdom gospel vs Gospel of grace

Interplanner

Well-known member
Basic teachings of Mid Acts Dispensational right division
– Jesus, in his earthly ministry, ministered to the circumcision. (Rom 15:8, see here)
– [bold]The mystery of Christ was first revealed to Paul[/bold] (Col 1:25-26, 1 Tim 1:16, and here)
– Prophecy and mystery are different (Acts 3:19-21 vs Rom 16:25)
– Peter and Paul taught different messages (Peter prophecy, and Paul mystery: See here)
– Prophecy has been interrupted. (See here)
– The gospel of the kingdom is not the gospel of the grace of God (See here and here)
– Israel’s Church and the Church, the body of Christ, are different. (See here)



How could 2P2P be more clear? Each program/people has its own gospel, so says D'ism. It has been saying this since Ryrie and further back (but he has a chapter title).

One misunderstanding is the English for these things, as though they were saying that there was a gospel about the kingdom. But Greek has cases for prepositional phrases, and it fails on that test. It is 4x more precise than English on that issue. The Gospel belongs to the reign or rule of God, but it is not identical to it and the expression should not be rendered 'the gospel about it.'

But grammar is heady. The more important thing is that there was not another offer or plan. There is no other plan running between the lines in the gospel accounts other than what actually happened. Jesus starts making this clear with his asides: Mt 16:20+, although I don't know why this same theme cannot be 'started' in 10:34. Or about the identity of John which comes up again about Elijah and reflects back.

The reign of God is mentioned many times without it being 'obviously' a theocracy; it's rather mysterious and left that way. It is 'made without human hands.' This is because the driving force of it is not going to be a state as they know it (and at that time it would be rather ridiculous to try to compete with Rome). The 'dunamis' of the reign of God is a message that God forgives through Christ; you therefore should be living in complete honor of that fact.

In Mt 16:22, we never find Peter saying 'wait a second; you have been talking about a completely different gospel this whole time. Why are you switching everything now?' This is not an 'argument from silence.' This is about the kind of imposed 'system' that D'ism is throughout. Those guys stayed up late and thought about all the kinds of things they would have to propose to make 2P2P work, and a 2nd gospel was certainly one of them.

The unfortunate thing for most in Israel comes at the parable of the tenants, which is the declaration that effort within this other reign or rule of God will exclude quite a few of them because they have been remiss. No other gospel was announced or offered; God was always trying to get them all to work in this vineyard and they did not, or they disliked what they saw.

There never was any other plan, because, as you can see, the parable is a Bible (or at least Gen 12+) in miniature form. Everything in Israel up to this point was to get Israel to be the missionaries intended to launch the Messianic mission shortly after the events of the Gospel. The idea of another gospel, plan, people, would scramble the parable hopelessly. To seal this point, the parable even states that the right employees of the vineyard are an 'ethne' (21:43) --which is a term used only for genetics and ancestry! It is a play on words about this very paradox. So now it is doubly clear that this is whom and how God works in his kingdom.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Basic teachings of Mid Acts Dispensational right division
– Jesus, in his earthly ministry, ministered to the circumcision. (Rom 15:8, see here)
– [bold]The mystery of Christ was first revealed to Paul[/bold] (Col 1:25-26, 1 Tim 1:16, and here)
– Prophecy and mystery are different (Acts 3:19-21 vs Rom 16:25)
– Peter and Paul taught different messages (Peter prophecy, and Paul mystery: See here)
– Prophecy has been interrupted. (See here)
– The gospel of the kingdom is not the gospel of the grace of God (See here and here)
– Israel’s Church and the Church, the body of Christ, are different. (See here)



How could 2P2P be more clear? Each program/people has its own gospel, so says D'ism. It has been saying this since Ryrie and further back (but he has a chapter title).

One misunderstanding is the English for these things, as though they were saying that there was a gospel about the kingdom. But Greek has cases for prepositional phrases, and it fails on that test. It is 4x more precise than English on that issue. The Gospel belongs to the reign or rule of God, but it is not identical to it and the expression should not be rendered 'the gospel about it.'

But grammar is heady. The more important thing is that there was not another offer or plan. There is no other plan running between the lines in the gospel accounts other than what actually happened. Jesus starts making this clear with his asides: Mt 16:20+, although I don't know why this same theme cannot be 'started' in 10:34. Or about the identity of John which comes up again about Elijah and reflects back.

The reign of God is mentioned many times without it being 'obviously' a theocracy; it's rather mysterious and left that way. It is 'made without human hands.' This is because the driving force of it is not going to be a state as they know it (and at that time it would be rather ridiculous to try to compete with Rome). The 'dunamis' of the reign of God is a message that God forgives through Christ; you therefore should be living in complete honor of that fact.

In Mt 16:22, we never find Peter saying 'wait a second; you have been talking about a completely different gospel this whole time. Why are you switching everything now?' This is not an 'argument from silence.' This is about the kind of imposed 'system' that D'ism is throughout. Those guys stayed up late and thought about all the kinds of things they would have to propose to make 2P2P work, and a 2nd gospel was certainly one of them.

The unfortunate thing for most in Israel comes at the parable of the tenants, which is the declaration that effort within this other reign or rule of God will exclude quite a few of them because they have been remiss. No other gospel was announced or offered; God was always trying to get them all to work in this vineyard and they did not, or they disliked what they saw.

There never was any other plan, because, as you can see, the parable is a Bible (or at least Gen 12+) in miniature form. Everything in Israel up to this point was to get Israel to be the missionaries intended to launch the Messianic mission shortly after the events of the Gospel. The idea of another gospel, plan, people, would scramble the parable hopelessly. To seal this point, the parable even states that the right employees of the vineyard are an 'ethne' (21:43) --which is a term used only for genetics and ancestry! It is a play on words about this very paradox. So now it is doubly clear that this is whom and how God works in his kingdom.

Yes, this is the danger of focusing on an earthly nation (Israel), instead of searching to know Jesus Christ and His Kingdom. Israel was given holy ordinances from God only to point to Messiah and the spiritual Kingdom promised to arrive through Him.

Dispensationalism in any of its various forms, always distracts from He whom the Christian is to center upon . . their Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
 

Danoh

New member
Yes, this is the danger of focusing on an earthly nation (Israel), instead of searching to know Jesus Christ and His Kingdom. Israel was given holy ordinances from God only to point to Messiah and the spiritual Kingdom promised to arrive through Him.

Dispensationalism in any of its various forms, always distracts from He whom the Christian is to center upon . . their Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

LOL - the notion that MAD is focused on the earthly, when in fact; MAD is focused on the heavenly.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
LOL - the notion that MAD is focused on the earthly, when in fact; MAD is focused on the heavenly.

MAD is focused on the earthly nation of Israel, rather than the spiritual Israel, which is the Lord Jesus Christ and His church body . . to the point of denying the N.T. church body of saints the New Covenant promises . . which they say belong to the earthly nation of Israel alone.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Who cares what happens to Israel !! I'm saved !!! :banana: :devil:


I care about the theology because whole platforms of Biblical truth can get horribly disfigured. I care about Israel in the ordinary sense (apart from prophecy and eschatology) because the region needs representative governments, not shari'a law government. All peoples do.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Yes, heaven forbid that the LORD fill the heavens, the city, and the earth with his people.

"the city" :chuckle:

You should tell Interplanner about your Upside Down Pyramid City that touches planet earth, and about how people go back and forth between the Upside Down Pyramid City and planet earth.
 

Nick M

Born that men no longer die
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”


Who knew the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit were such utter failures at opening up the scriptures so they understand there is no kingdom.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Who knew the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit were such utter failures at opening up the scriptures so they understand there is no kingdom.


There is a kingdom !

However, it's not on planet earth, nor will it ever be.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
"the city" :chuckle:

You should tell Interplanner about your Upside Down Pyramid City that touches planet earth, and about how people go back and forth between the Upside Down Pyramid City and planet earth.

You mean the one plainly described in the Bible ?
 

Nick M

Born that men no longer die
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Ancient peoples had enough intelligence to build the Tower of Babel, a tower so great that God had to intervene...yet God himself cannot handle creating a City and positioning it wherever He desires to position it.

Yep. On a side note, we are going down, not increasing in intelligence.
 
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