ECT MAD 1: Jesus ministered to the circumcision.

[tetelestai]

Titus 2:13 (KJV)

Is that the rapture or Second Coming?

 

[marhig]

Indeed it does since it's in perfect harmony with Scripture.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Romans 2

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Jesus was a minister of the circumcision, for the truth of God. Not a minister to only the circumcised.

Mark 16

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

And this is Simeon speaking (below), who blessed Jesus as he was circumcised

Luke 2

Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel

 

[Interplanner]

Romans 2

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Jesus was a minister of the circumcision, for the truth of God. Not a minister to only the circumcised.

Mark 16

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

And this is Simeon speaking (below), who blessed Jesus as he was circumcised

Luke 2

Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel

Good answer. I don't know what the problem is about the 'only to the lost sheep of Israel' saying. It is sarcastic, but it is also in an incident where he honors the Gentile woman for having more faith than those in Israel.

Raising the question: are we reading the Bible more than TOL?

 

[Interplanner]

The light to enlighten the Gentiles is also used in Acts 13's Q&A period after the sermon. It's the same lines from Isaiah. There is no such thing as a mystery that God's mission was going to the nations, not even in Judaism (Mt 23). The mystery was the method, the channel.

 

[God's Truth]

This seems to have some sense to it. Yet there are plenty of instances where 1, this doesn't matter (you would 'minister' to those where you lived regardless) and 2, where He indicated his message was (eventually) for all people. (You don't provide atonement for sin one way for one race of people and another for another...).

But beside all that, we should revisit the 1st century world and circumstance. You traveled every where on foot. There is neither internet nor interstates as we know them. The main reason for the road system was dispatch of troops. I think of El Salvador or Swaziland and wonder how many people outside they would ever see, and whether they would think of the outsiders as their market.

Geographically you have huge limitations. It's a north-south strip, and there's not much public travel on the waters and the desert is a physical danger--or has borderline 'nations' who want to puncture Roman control of Mediterranean, like the Idumeans.

I don't think he would have humanly had occasion for much of the outside world. So then we should ask, what about the few exchanges with those outside. This is illuminating. when there is a Roman centurion or household to talk to, he shows every interest in them being believers. He makes test cases out of a few others, and women at that. When three 'maji' come from Persia, they leave with sufficient knowledge of the Gospel.

'Jesus ministered to the circumcision' amounts to a non-statement. It is Dispensationalism trying to score points for 2P2P which is a belief that there are 2 peoples and programs running unmet in the Bible, and they need to be adhered to strictly. 2P2P would rather chop up passages into its distinctions than have a 'messy' unified message.

Jesus ministered to the circumcision is about Jesus coming first for the Jews; not just any Jews, but the lost sheep of Israel. The lost sheep of Israel are the Jews who ALREADY belonged to God by FAITH. Just because one was a circumcised Jew, it did NOT mean they had faith in God. In the Old Covenant law, it did NOT require faith it required purification works that anyone could do regardless. God did not like it that a person could sin, give a sin offering, but NOT REALLY be SORRY for their sin.

God was coming to make a New Covenant and it would be based on FAITH. Obedience to God would still be required, of course, but now faith would be required for the conditions of the New Covenant.

Jesus came first for those who already belonged to God by faith; they were God's people, and God gave them to Jesus...they now had to go through Jesus to remain God's. Jesus said he would not lose one that God gave him.

Now Jesus came for those Jews who obeyed and had faith, and God CUT OFF AND HARDENED those who obeyed the purification works but who did NOT have faith. God cut off and hardened them during the time Jesus walked the earth, because Jesus had to come first for those who already belonged to the Father and those who waited for the Messiah.

Jesus said when he is crucified, then ALL men, all people, all nationalities could come to him to be saved, but he came first for the faithful Jews; and while he walked the earth, it was to them he ministered to.

 

[Interplanner]

Jesus ministered to the circumcision is about Jesus coming first for the Jews; not just any Jews, but the lost sheep of Israel. The lost sheep of Israel are the Jews who ALREADY belonged to God by FAITH. Just because one was a circumcised Jew, it did NOT mean they had faith in God. In the Old Covenant law, it did NOT require faith it required purification works that anyone could do regardless. God did not like it that a person could sin, give a sin offering, but NOT REALLY be SORRY for their sin.

God was coming to make a New Covenant and it would be based on FAITH. Obedience to God would still be required, of course, but now faith would be required for the conditions of the New Covenant.

Jesus came first for those who already belonged to God by faith; they were God's people, and God gave them to Jesus...they now had to go through Jesus to remain God's. Jesus said he would not lose one that God gave him.

Now Jesus came for those Jews who obeyed and had faith, and God CUT OFF AND HARDENED those who obeyed the purification works but who did NOT have faith. God cut off and hardened them during the time Jesus walked the earth, because Jesus had to come first for those who already belonged to the Father and those who waited for the Messiah.

Jesus said when he is crucified, then ALL men, all people, all nationalities could come to him to be saved, but he came first for the faithful Jews; and while he walked the earth, it was to them he ministered to.

Fair enough, but not to terminate there. And not for a theocratic kingdom. The reason he did what he did, as you can see from the mission movement he started, was to get the mission movement off the ground with its universal-appeal message. At a minimum, this was 221 people by the end of the seminar after the resurrection, if the 70 got 2 each and we throw in 11 disciples.

This ties in to Rom 11 on an important level: the reason for the prodding of Israel in 11 starts at 10:14's string of questions that is about--you guessed it--the mission of the Gospel to the nations. Paul wants to see as many of them in it because of the 'head start' they have. Rom 11 is not about a future theocratic millenial state of Israel; it is about the mission of God thriving by having Jews in it. The 'Israel' he refers to there was mentioned in 9:6 and 26. It is not Israel as we now it today in almost all broadcasts and publications in which poorly-educated Americans are 'experts' in prophecy because they can charge $19.95 to soothe your anxieties.

 

[God's Truth]

Fair enough, but not to terminate there. And not for a theocratic kingdom. The reason he did what he did, as you can see from the mission movement he started, was to get the mission movement off the ground with its universal-appeal message. At a minimum, this was 221 people by the end of the seminar after the resurrection, if the 70 got 2 each and we throw in 11 disciples.

This ties in to Rom 11 on an important level: the reason for the prodding of Israel in 11 starts at 10:14's string of questions that is about--you guessed it--the mission of the Gospel to the nations. Paul wants to see as many of them in it because of the 'head start' they have. Rom 11 is not about a future theocratic millenial state of Israel; it is about the mission of God thriving by having Jews in it. The 'Israel' he refers to there was mentioned in 9:6 and 26. It is not Israel as we now it today in almost all broadcasts and publications in which poorly-educated Americans are 'experts' in prophecy because they can charge $19.95 to soothe your anxieties.

Israel is ANYONE and EVERYONE who comes to God with faith AND obedience.

God does not care about earthy land anymore; He does not care about blood relations; He only cares about what is in your heart.

God brought Jesus into the world as one BLOOD RELATED to Abraham, because Abraham believed and obeyed God.

Since Jesus came, the ONLY BLOOD relations that matters is those who come to Him by Jesus' blood shed on the cross.

God fulfilled all land promises a long time ago.

 

[God's Truth]

An earthy LAND promise was given a LONG TIME AGO.

The promise to a BLOOD RELATION in the humanly sense---WAS GIVEN A LONG TIME AGO, and the ONE and ONLY promise that matters is now given through the promised Messiah, JESUS CHRIST THE LORD AND SAVIOR OF THE WORLD.

God no longer cares about to whom you are blood related...not even if you are a direct descendant of Abraham.

God does not care anymore about an earthly land called Israel, for ALL are Israel if they come to Him by the blood of His Son.

 

[Interplanner]

Israel is ANYONE and EVERYONE who comes to God with faith AND obedience.

God does not care about earthy land anymore; He does not care about blood relations; He only cares about what is in your heart.

God brought Jesus into the world as one BLOOD RELATED to Abraham, because Abraham believed and obeyed God.

Since Jesus came, the ONLY BLOOD relations that matters is those who come to Him by Jesus' blood shed on the cross.

God fulfilled all land promises a long time ago.

That's very close, except for the 'because' of the 2nd sentence. The relation to Abraham is not a blood relation.

 

[Interplanner]

An earthy LAND promise was given a LONG TIME AGO.

The promise to a BLOOD RELATION in the humanly sense---WAS GIVEN A LONG TIME AGO, and the ONE and ONLY promise that matters is now given through the promised Messiah, JESUS CHRIST THE LORD AND SAVIOR OF THE WORLD.

God no longer cares about to whom you are blood related...not even if you are a direct descendant of Abraham.

God does not care anymore about an earthly land called Israel, for ALL are Israel if they come to Him by the blood of His Son.

Yes, good. It points out the paradox of blood in the old and new sense, as it should; Jn 1:13.

 

[God's Truth]

That's very close, except for the 'because' of the 2nd sentence. The relation to Abraham is not a blood relation.

Explain better what you are trying to correct me on.

What exactly did I say that you do NOT ACCEPT.

 

[God's Truth]

There is no close but EXCEPT.

I have God's Truth and if you want to correct me you better give it more attention than you have.

 

[God's Truth]

That's very close, except for the 'because' of the 2nd sentence. The relation to Abraham is not a blood relation.

How do you ever get that the relation to Abraham is not a BLOOD relation? Jesus is related to Abraham by BLOOD.

 

[God's Truth]

Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.


Jesus, as to his earthy blood relation, he is the promised blood relation to ABRAHAM, and Isaac, and David.

Ever since Jesus came, he is the fulfillment of the promise God gave to Abraham...about a blood relation to Abraham, who is in fact blood related to the Jews...but that is not what matters anymore, for ALL are related now since Jesus, to Jesus, BY FAITH.

 

[Interplanner]

Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.


Jesus, as to his earthy blood relation, he is the promised blood relation to ABRAHAM, and Isaac, and David.

Ever since Jesus came, he is the fulfillment of the promise God gave to Abraham...about a blood relation to Abraham, who is in fact blood related to the Jews...but that is not what matters anymore, for ALL are related now since Jesus, to Jesus, BY FAITH.

Well, one question would be: what blood was Abraham the moment before he believed? So you could say it didn't even matter then. But as you say, 'that is not what matters anymore.' The relation (and inheritance, membership, fellowship of Eph 3:5) is by faith in Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

Well, one question would be: what blood was Abraham the moment before he believed? So you could say it didn't even matter then. But as you say, 'that is not what matters anymore.' The relation (and inheritance, membership, fellowship of Eph 3:5) is by faith in Christ.

Jesus, as to his earthly side is BLOOD related to Abraham. That was a PROMISE from God to Abraham---BECAUSE Abraham believed AND obeyed God.

God promised that the Messiah would come through the blood line of Abraham.

Abraham is proof that we must have faith AND obedience, for that is why God kept His promise to Abraham!

Since Jesus came, it does NOT matter anymore if one is blood related to Abraham, because the promise is he who was coming, Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world.

All Israel was blood related to Abraham.

NOW THROUGH JESUS' BLOOD, we are related by faith, and we become the Israel of God's heart, the true Israel.

 

[Interplanner]

It sounds like Abraham was ultimately necessary. He was not. Again: what blood line was he the moment before he believed?

 

[God's Truth]

It sounds like Abraham was ultimately necessary. He was not. Again: what blood line was he the moment before he believed?

You are missing the point. Take it slower, for you are by passing it. What does it matter what blood line Abraham was the moment BEFORE he believed?

God SAID TO ABRAHAM...that BECAUSE Abraham believed AND obeyed Him, HE, ABRAHAM would have one blood related to him, who would be the Messiah.

This scripture is about the promise for a BLOOD RELATION, Jesus Christ:

Genesis 26:4-5 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws."


It is a literal earthly promise that will ultimately be an AMAZING SPIRITUAL PROMISE.

Deuteronomy 7:8 But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath he swore to your ancestors that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt.


God swore what to whom?

God swore to Abraham that a blood relation would be the Savior of the world.

Who are Abraham's descendants? The descendants are ISRAEL...they are people BLOOD RELATED TO ABRAHAM.


Deuteronomy 4:37
Because he loved your ancestors and chose their descendants after them, he brought you out of Egypt by his Presence and his great strength,

Deuteronomy 9:5 It is not because of your righteousness or your integrity that you are going in to take possession of their land; but on account of the wickedness of these nations, the LORD your God will drive them out before you, to accomplish what he swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.


Micah 7:20
You will be faithful to Jacob, and show love to Abraham, as you pledged on oath to our ancestors in days long ago.


The ANCESTORS of the Israelites are ABRAHAM, ISAAC, and JACOB.

Jesus is the PROMISED SAVIOR OF THE WORLD who is by his earthly nature BLOOD related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and David.

Since Jesus Christ has come into the world---it no longer matters to whom one is earthly related to Abraham. It only matters to whom one is related to Jesus' blood, by faith.

 

[God's Truth]

God loves those who love Him. We love God by having faith in Him and obeying Him, as Abraham did.

The Savior of the world is blood related to Abraham because Abraham loved God as shown by faith and obedience. God promised this amazing thing to Abraham because of Abraham's love and faith in God.

All those blood related to Abraham knew the Savior would come through their blood line.

Since Jesus has come, there is no special race of people to God, but only a race of people who believe in Him and have faith, as Abraham did.

 

[steko]

It sounds like Abraham was ultimately necessary. He was not. Again: what blood line was he the moment before he believed?

It was GOD who set Abram apart from others.

What....you don't like it?