LOST - discussion about the TV series LOST. ** SPOILER ALERT **

[zoo22]

Here is a forum post reportedly from one of the "Bad Robot" writers who worked on the show.

I don't know the accuracy of that claim but his post certainly seems realistic and does answers some questions.

So.... take it for what it's worth.

Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ... First ... The Island: It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to mess with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so. Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work. Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself. Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent. Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun. In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ... Now... Sideways World: Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix. The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving. It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment. How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac. But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny. They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc). A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me. But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it. For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years. In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.

Well, all of that does make sense to me... And I will say that I loved that Ben stayed out. And loved Ben's interaction with Locke. And I can understand why some weren't there. Obviously Ana Lucia was a pointer to that... She was still struggling, a bad cop, she wasn't ready.

That's interesting idea that it would be Ben's job now to help people "remember." I hadn't thought of that.

But I don't see why everyone necessarily needed a soul mate. Like Locke? Helen was his soul mate. Maybe she would find her way in too, but I'm not sure how, as it was all so specifically Island-related. In the I didn't even notice if Libby was in there? But then again, this seemed Jack's story and "group" more than anything else. But then why was Penny there? Because we needed to see her with Desmond? Penny wasn't much tied to anyone on that island but Desmond. I kind of think Desmond should maybe have also stayed out of the Church... Brought them there, but stayed in the alt for a while.

Ana Lucia could have been there when Shannon was getting beaten up and Sayid and Ana Lucia could have made a recognition at the same time (I think killing Shannon was a major turning point for Ana Lucia... As was her conversation while holding Sayid captive, and showing up then, seeing them connect could have been a trigger - Though she wouldn't have anyone to dance with at the Church...). But I do definitely understand why she wasn't there.

I'm still digesting it all and want to give the episode another view.

I did like a lot of it quite a bit.

Good article, thanks, Knight.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I'm still digesting it all and want to give the episode another view.

Some of my favorite music is music that I wasn't sure I liked very much when I first listened to it.

For instance...
I might buy a CD and I love it right away! Every song is like a hit! But often times those quickly fade. After a few listens I grow tired of them. The songs aren't layered enough, they aren't deep enough, they are nothing more than candy that loses it's flavor after a few bites.

Yet other times... I buy a CD and I don't like it that much when I first listen to it. I don't hate it, but I needed to chew on it a bit before I liked it. I needed to listen to it a few times before I understood what the artist was trying to accomplish with it. Then, when it grew on me it had real "staying power". It suck to my ribs and it filled my soul.

I think LOST is much like that. (especially the finale)

My guess is the more we think about it... the more time passes, the more mentally satisfying it will become. The finale was not the sum total of the series. Instead the finale was merely the end of a fantastic journey that the show took us on.

 

[zoo22]

Some of my favorite music is music that I wasn't sure I liked very much when I first listened to it.

For instance...
I might buy a CD and I love it right away! Every song is like a hit! But often times those quickly fade. After a few listens I grow tired of them. The songs aren't layered enough, they aren't deep enough, they are nothing more than candy that loses it's flavor after a few bites.

Yet other times... I buy a CD and I don't like it that much when I first listen to it. I don't hate it, but I needed to chew on it a bit before I liked it. I needed to listen to it a few times before I understood what the artist was trying to accomplish with it. Then, when it grew on me it had real "staying power". It suck to my ribs and it filled my soul.

I think LOST is much like that. (especially the finale)

My guess is the more we think about it... the more time passes, the more mentally satisfying it will become. The finale was not the sum total of the series. Instead the finale was merely the end of a fantastic journey that the show took us on.

Yeah, I agree and I obviously I love/care about the show. It wasn't a let down. But I also don't want to convince myself of liking things I didn't.

But yeah, I have some digesting to do.

I guess, trying to be clear, I really did not want everything completely "explained," or wrapped up in a tight little bow. Didn't expect, didn't want. I don't care what the light was. I get it enough. I don't need to know if "mother" was smokie too. No need. But on the other hand, there were a lot of things that IMO, were more than "island mythology," or whatever, that I thought should have been explained a bit. At least addressed. Or addressed better. Or left confusing and open but not completely open.

I think that while they had a beginning/end plan, that during the middle seasons, they dug themselves into a few holes (no pun intended), and didn't have time to fill them. They as much admitted that about Ilana... That they'd planned to have more explanation and "purpose" for her character, to give her a real character arc, but couldn't fit it in... So they blew her up. I have a feeling there were a number of those things that fell by the wayside.

But also, I might differ from many viewers in that I actually really didn't care all much about most of the characters, except (primarily) Locke, Desmond and Ben. Faraday, Hugo, Eloise, Widmore to an extent. Jack at a certain point I began to care about. I liked many of the other characters, but to me the show was at least as much plot/event-driven as it was character driven.

Here's a simple example of what I thought was off:

Clair's psychic. ...So Claire goes to a psychic. The psychic flipped out when he touched her hand, he knew she was pregnant, he gave her her money back, told her to leave and never come back, then hounded her for months about raising the baby herself and wound up putting her on Oceanic 815 to LA.

The writers/producers say, "Well, the psychic later told Eko he was a fraud. There's your answer. What more do you want?"

But it's a terrible answer. 1) a fraud would take her $. 2) as we know, some people are "special," so it's certainly makes sense that he could be legit, 3) The writers/producers have very specifically said that in LOST, what someone says is very different than what they do. If you see someone do something, that's real. If they say something, that may or may not be real.

Now, there could be many explanations for the psychic. Maybe Widmore hired him. Maybe Jacob stepped in. Maybe he had some other baby-selling agenda... Who knows. But it was just left hanging (IMO) in this lame way, and the writer/producer's saying it was "answered" seemed just as lame.

I think there were too many things like that.

But I still loved it. And still think it was the best television show. Besides Twin Peaks.

 

[chatmaggot]

Mr. Eko was always my favorite character. I read on this site that...

Damon Lindelof stated that Eko's story arc was originally supposed to last 4 seasons however due to Adewale's dislike of living in Hawaii he was killed off after a little over one season.

I would have liked to see where they took his character if Adewale had liked Hawaii. If he would have showed up in the final episode in the sideways timeline (kind of like Ben's dad and Anna Lucia did) I would have really REALLY liked the finale. However, you can't please everybody...especially when I am a nobody.

 

[zoo22]

Mr. Eko was always my favorite character. I read on this site that...



I would have liked to see where they took his character if Adewale had liked Hawaii. If he would have showed up in the final episode in the sideways timeline (kind of like Ben's dad and Anna Lucia did) I would have really REALLY liked the finale. However, you can't please everybody...especially when I am a nobody.

Yeah, would love to know what they had planned for him before he left.

But I do think it makes sense that he wasn't there with them (besides the producers being upset he'd left and them not offering him to come back for the end, which he asked to do). But as it stood, when smokie killed him, Eko was really more connected to own his past than to the island, or the people on the island. He was essentially a loner on the island.

One think interesting is that Eko's death kind of foreshadowed the end. He walked off with his dead brother Yemi. He let go on the island, found his redemption ... Died, and wound up with his brother who (I believe) was his soul mate.

 

[zoo22]

Also, while I figure (hope) this thread will go on a while longer as we put our own pieces together, I wanted to say how much I enjoyed it through season 6, having this thread and talking LOST with everyone here.

Though I'd read certain recaps here and there and whatnot, this was the only LOST forum I participated in this year, and for the most part, was my season 6 one-stop-LOST-shop.

 

[Lucky]

I definitely don't think so. It all happened, it was all real on the island. The only "non-real" part was the Alt.

I repeat, I don't really care what's real or not. I just wanted to know if they showed the untouched Oceanic wreckage in the end credits to give the impression that there were no survivors of Oceanic 815.

Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to mess with people's heads and show how far the show had come.

That's what I was thinking. Thanks.

they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic.

Fantastic? Only in the sense that it made more cents. The end proves that there were characters and countless plots that were simply filler. My opinion is that the filler is garbage. I know most Lost fans probably disagree.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Fantastic? Only in the sense that it made more cents. The end proves that there were characters and countless plots that were simply filler. My opinion is that the filler is garbage. I know most Lost fans probably disagree.

And thus the beauty of differing tastes. You would have made a mini-series instead of a series, and that's ok.

A tv series with filler eh? That's not exactly news is it?

And what is filler anyway? Is there good filler and bad filler? Whatever LOST's filler was, I liked it. It entertained me and that's all I was looking for.... Entertainment.

My bar is set pretty high, I rarely like anything on TV that isn't sports, but lost was different. It made me think. It made me solve puzzles. And it gave us sbomething to enjoy with our older kids which was worth the price of admission. Was it perfect? Of course not, but it sure was creative and interesting.

 

[zoo22]

I initially had a semi-problem with Vincent being there with Jack as he died. But then I realized that Jack couldn't die alone.

 

[zoo22]

I really liked Jack stumbling through the bamboo at the end...

 

[zoo22]

I loved when Locke told Jack he didn't have a son.

I wish Locke (after operation) had either referenced or said something about wishing Jack would believe him. But in a smiling, enlightened "I know you will, but I wish you would now" kind of way, rather than a desperate (suicide note) kind of way.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I initially had a semi-problem with Vincent being there with Jack as he died. But then I realized that Jack couldn't die alone.

I agree with that.

Vincent was symbolic of all the people that were there for Jack at his "awakening" when he realized he was really dead and then entered the church.

For the first 6 seasons of LOST Jack tirelessly tried to help everyone, he wanted to fix them, he was trying to save them.

And in the final season (in the ALT) it was everyone else who was trying to help Jack. They wanted to help him understand it was OK to "let go", to move on. It was if they all wanted to repay him for all that he had done for them.

LOST started with Jack lying in the jungle with Vincent by his side and then he runs off to lead Jack into his adventure on the island. The show ended with Jack lying alone on the jungle floor dying, yet Vincent runs up to him to be with him in his moment of death - symbolic of the reversal of roles that Jack was facing.

Very cool!

 

[Poly]

My guess is the more we think about it... the more time passes, the more mentally satisfying it will become. The finale was not the sum total of the series. Instead the finale was merely the end of a fantastic journey that the show took us on.

I think it'll be neat to just watch it all over (which would be my 3rd go 'round) at a leisurely pace just to watch all of the people, relationships, and events with "new eyes" and see how and why they change or just analyze their outcome of events.

 

[zoo22]

I don't care what was real and what wasn't, but did anyone else think the reason they showed the Oceanic wreckage (which to me looked untouched by survivors) in the end credits was to give the impression that there were no survivors of Oceanic 815? In other words, won't viewers who believe they were all dead from the get-go use that scene as "proof" in their debating?

It turns out that the end-credit images of the plane wreckage had nothing to do with the show at all: No head-twisting, no clues, no hints, nothing. ABC put them in as a way to ease out of the show and into the news. They were only aired in the US and UK. Just old pics of the set, as a nice throw-back/wind-down. The writers/producers had nothing to do with the images being shown.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

By the way....

If you are like me and LOVED the finale except felt a bit strange after the final 5 minutes of the show... FEAR NOT!

I am working on a very plausible theory that makes it all better. No joke!

 

[Town Heretic]

What if it was all a dream that Vincent had to explain the shoe in the bamboo. :think:

Look forward to your tie-up, Knight, but I was so satisfied with the character wrap ups I didn't even notice the stain glass.

:chuckle: The last time I felt that good about a series finale...hmmm. Frasier, maybe.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Look forward to your tie-up, Knight, but I was so satisfied with the character wrap ups I didn't even notice the stain glass.

The character wrap-ups were brilliant! I loved every moment of them. And the stained glass was unfortunate but it didn't ruin anything for me.

The thing that eventually left me feeling hollow was that the end of the show wasn't necessarily predicated on anything that happened in the the previous 5 seasons.

In other words... if the ALT was merely the characters version of purgatory then that could have happened without a mysterious island, without time travel, and without the "incident". It seemed as if the ending was disjointed from the rest of the series. You could have had the same great characters, back stories, and "purgatory" style ending, had our hero's been stuck in Barstow California after their bus broke down. I am willing to bet almost any amount of money that that is the reason there are a large number of folks who are feeling a bit hollow regarding the ending of the series.

But I do have a solution. A very satisfying, reasonable, plausible, solution that makes everything feel right again.

And I will share it with you as soon as I have time to compose it.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

A self-created purgatory, souls temporarily stuck in time.

A self-created purgatory, souls temporarily stuck in time.

OK, so here is the deal. I think I know why some folks have had a very hollow feeling after the finale of LOST, and no it's not just because the show is over. It's because of the prevailing notion that the ALT was merely a type of purgatory, a type of purgatory that any of us would eventually experience when we die which means it isn't necessarily connected to all the events in the previous seasons of LOST.

If the ALT is just your run-of-the-mill purgatory then.... we don't need a mysterious island to get there. We don't need time travel, we don't need to be avoiding a smoke-monster, and we don't need to explode a nuclear bomb to attempt to set things right. We all know the characters in LOST were awesome without the crazy plot points, but it was those very plot points that made most of us LOST evangelists love the show that much more and tell our friends to start watching LOST from the beginning because "LOST is like a 6 year long movie".

But if the purgatory ending wasn't caused directly by the "incident" then all of the story leading up to it was just window dressing. Hoops to jump through just to keep us watching, nothing more than props for our characters to interact with. I have a hard time accepting that. Now if you are one of those people who say... "it was just a character show, don't be concerned with the details" then you can skip my theory and go on being satisfied, I am happy for ya.

Yet if you are like me want the major plot points to have some sort of connection, some sort of meaning, I offer this explanation... (I hope you like it)

I submit to you that when the "incident" happened all of our losties and everyone even close to the island were killed.

After all... they detonated a nuclear bomb for goodness sake!

But here is the twist, our characters were killed back in time and therefore THEY WERE STILL ALIVE in the future.

Dead in the past, yet alive in the future. (that's cool just thinking about it)

No, no, no... I am not saying that all the things that happened on the island in seasons 1-6 didn't really happen because they were dead, they most certainly lived through all of that. We know they lived through that stuff based on what Christian said in the waiting room of the church. (and I am glad we can know that is the case)

What I am saying is... when they time traveled back to the 70's they had essentially created two version of themselves, one in the 70's and one that would have to exist in the future because they had already lived up to that point. They had essentially split their own souls in two (via time travel). After all, we have direct evidence of this when Sawyer see's Kate delivering Claire's baby on the island, we know for sure that there were two Sawyers on the island at that point. And then later Sawyer ends up in the 70's stuck in Dharmaville and later still he helps Jack detonate Jughead. Two Sawyers: time traveling Sawyer and present day Sawyer. (apply that same principle to everyone who was effected by the island time traveling)

Now here is the cool part.... when the nuclear bomb blew up and they all died they were instantly transported to the future. Why? Because they were still alive in the future! It was their time traveling version of themselves that was now killed off. Yet that time traveling version of themselves had a soul and what is that soul going to do in the time between the death of the 1970's version of themselves and the death of their future self???

BAM! A self-created purgatory. Souls, stuck in time. (at least for awhile)

In other words.... I believe they created the ALT/"purgatory" by detonating the bomb. Not by just imagining it or by it just being what happens when you die regardless of time travel like so many folks are asserting. Their time traveling soul was stuck in time (so to speak) waiting for the other half of their soul to be released from their physical body before the two halves of the soul could reunite again and finally enter heaven.

Therefore, the incident accomplished two very important things:

1. It absorbed the electromagnetic release that Dharma accidentally tapped into. (this also kept smokie trapped on the island because the island, possibly because even though the Jughead blew up big time it was still better than the island being completely destroyed by the releasing of the electromagnetic energy)

2. It helped all of our losties and everyone else near the island escape from the time loop that was created when they time traveled in the first place. (had they not killed their past self off they would have been stuck in a loop always traveling back in time over and over again).

Yet the side-effect was that now they had a portion of their conciseness (or their soul) stuck back in time with nowhere to go. That soul conciseness needed to do stuff while the person was still alive in real-time hence the events in the ALT. Which is also why some of the things that happened in the ALT were seemingly affected by the events going on on the island. It's as if their souls were half-aware of what was really going on (maybe like being in a cosmic-coma).

As Jack's dad Christian said in the church.... "This is a place that you’ve all made together so that you could find one another." I doubt that standard-purgatory is something a normal person could "make" on their own.

When we look at it this way we can feel better knowing that the ALT wasn't disjointed from everything that had happened prior to it. It all led up to the end and it was all relevant and important.

- Time travel created the time loop (paradox)
- Time travel created another version of their physical bodies
- Time travel created another version of their own souls/conciseness
- Jughead killed off their time traveling physical bodies
- The ALT was the result of their time traveling soul having nowhere to go until it could be reunited with their present die soul at death.

There are a couple of holes in this idea.
Not everyone was there at the "incident". Most notably Locke and Sun. But I write this off to the fact that even though not everyone was there at the incident the time travel still caused the pardox (time loop) and their souls still were connected to the ones they loved and knew and therefore the self-created purgatory contained all the souls that were connected via the island and their own lives leading up to that point. (it's not as perfect as I would like but maybe I can tighten it up in the future)

In conclusion.... traveling back in time and then the "incident" caused a self created "purgatory" type reality where a portion of their souls went to work things out and wait until their future (and real-time) soul was finally separated from their body and they died.

 

[Yorzhik]

OK, so here is the deal. I think I know why some folks have had a very hollow feeling after the finale of LOST, and no it's not just because the show is over. It's because of the prevailing notion that the ALT was merely a type of purgatory, a type of purgatory that any of us would eventually experience when we die which means it isn't necessarily connected to all the events in the previous seasons of LOST.

If the ALT is just your run-of-the-mill purgatory then.... we don't need a mysterious island to get there. We don't need time travel, we don't need to be avoiding a smoke-monster, and we don't need to explode a nuclear bomb to attempt to set things right. We all know the characters in LOST were awesome without the crazy plot points, but it was those very plot points that made most of us LOST evangelists love the show that much more and tell our friends to start watching LOST from the beginning because "LOST is like a 6 year long movie".

But if the purgatory ending wasn't caused directly by the "incident" then all of the story leading up to it was just window dressing. Hoops to jump through just to keep us watching, nothing more than props for our characters to interact with. I have a hard time accepting that. Now if you are one of those people who say... "it was just a character show, don't be concerned with the details" then you can skip my theory and go on being satisfied, I am happy for ya.

Yet if you are like me want the major plot points to have some sort of connection, some sort of meaning, I offer this explanation... (I hope you like it)

I submit to you that when the "incident" happened all of our losties and everyone even close to the island were killed.

After all... they detonated a nuclear bomb for goodness sake!

But here is the twist, our characters were killed back in time and therefore THEY WERE STILL ALIVE in the future.

Dead in the past, yet alive in the future. (that's cool just thinking about it)

No, no, no... I am not saying that all the things that happened on the island in seasons 1-6 didn't really happen because they were dead, they most certainly lived through all of that. We know they lived through that stuff based on what Christian said in the waiting room of the church. (and I am glad we can know that is the case)

What I am saying is... when they time traveled back to the 70's they had essentially created two version of themselves, one in the 70's and one that would have to exist in the future because they had already lived up to that point. They had essentially split their own souls in two (via time travel). After all, we have direct evidence of this when Sawyer see's Kate delivering Claire's baby on the island, we know for sure that there were two Sawyers on the island at that point. And then later Sawyer ends up in the 70's stuck in Dharmaville and later still he helps Jack detonate Jughead. Two Sawyers: time traveling Sawyer and present day Sawyer. (apply that same principle to everyone who was effected by the island time traveling)

Now here is the cool part.... when the nuclear bomb blew up and they all died they were instantly transported to the future. Why? Because they were still alive in the future! It was their time traveling version of themselves that was now killed off. Yet that time traveling version of themselves had a soul and what is that soul going to do in the time between the death of the 1970's version of themselves and the death of their future self???

BAM! A self-created purgatory. Souls, stuck in time. (at least for awhile)

In other words.... I believe they created the ALT/"purgatory" by detonating the bomb. Not by just imagining it or by it just being what happens when you die regardless of time travel like so many folks are asserting. Their time traveling soul was stuck in time (so to speak) waiting for the other half of their soul to be released from their physical body before the two halves of the soul could reunite again and finally enter heaven.

Therefore, the incident accomplished two very important things:

1. It absorbed the electromagnetic release that Dharma accidentally tapped into. (this also kept smokie trapped on the island because the island, possibly because even though the Jughead blew up big time it was still better than the island being completely destroyed by the releasing of the electromagnetic energy)

2. It helped all of our losties and everyone else near the island escape from the time loop that was created when they time traveled in the first place. (had they not killed their past self off they would have been stuck in a loop always traveling back in time over and over again).

Yet the side-effect was that now they had a portion of their conciseness (or their soul) stuck back in time with nowhere to go. That soul conciseness needed to do stuff while the person was still alive in real-time hence the events in the ALT. Which is also why some of the things that happened in the ALT were seemingly affected by the events going on on the island. It's as if their souls were half-aware of what was really going on (maybe like being in a cosmic-coma).

As Jack's dad Christian said in the church.... "This is a place that you’ve all made together so that you could find one another." I doubt that standard-purgatory is something a normal person could "make" on their own.

When we look at it this way we can feel better knowing that the ALT wasn't disjointed from everything that had happened prior to it. It all led up to the end and it was all relevant and important.

- Time travel created the time loop (paradox)
- Time travel created another version of their physical bodies
- Time travel created another version of their own souls/conciseness
- Jughead killed off their time traveling physical bodies
- The ALT was the result of their time traveling soul having nowhere to go until it could be reunited with their present die soul at death.

There are a couple of holes in this idea.
Not everyone was there at the "incident". Most notably Locke and Sun. But I write this off to the fact that even though not everyone was there at the incident the time travel still caused the pardox (time loop) and their souls still were connected to the ones they loved and knew and therefore the self-created purgatory contained all the souls that were connected via the island and their own lives leading up to that point. (it's not as perfect as I would like but maybe I can tighten it up in the future)

In conclusion.... traveling back in time and then the "incident" caused a self created "purgatory" type reality where a portion of their souls went to work things out and wait until their future (and real-time) soul was finally separated from their body and they died.

Thanks Knight. That was great. It also fits with my theory that once a physical body ends up on the island, it's a point where natural and supernatural meet and everyone there is now affected by and affecting both the natural and supernatural worlds. You can have super-beings like Jacob and MIB (and their mother... and Jack... and Hugo), while regular beings like the losties may not have that power, but cannot act within the supernatural world without creating supernatural effects.

 

[chatmaggot]

The more I thought about the finale the more I realized what you wrote here...

OK, so here is the deal. I think I know why some folks have had a very hollow feeling after the finale of LOST, and no it's not just because the show is over. It's because of the prevailing notion that the ALT was merely a type of purgatory, a type of purgatory that any of us would eventually experience when we die which means it isn't necessarily connected to all the events in the previous seasons of LOST.

If the ALT is just your run-of-the-mill purgatory then.... we don't need a mysterious island to get there. We don't need time travel, we don't need to be avoiding a smoke-monster, and we don't need to explode a nuclear bomb to attempt to set things right....

...seemed to be exactly what I was feeling. Why such a mysterious Island, Widmore and Ben over generations, strange stations where people recorded things and sent them through air-tube that went no where, Desmond who had time-flashes, a donkey wheel that "moved" the Island, Ben having numerous passports and a boat load of cash, Dharma food being dropped from a plane as if the Dharma experiment was still going on, Faraday meeting Charlot as a child and then as an adult, etc...if all people needed to do was to die and go to "heaven".

I am still trying to digest your theory. I agree there are some holes...but it does make pretty good sense of some stuff.

Here's a question...after they detonated JugHead you claim that they were all killed off...back in time (the 70's folks)...but after the flash everything seemed to be set right...or at least tossed everyone's soul back to the future because everyone from the 70's timeline died and the Island was destroyed (or at least sunk). However, when they awoke after the detonation there was a hole as if something happened. Now this was all future time. So what do you think happened in the future time to cause the hole to make it appear as if something had detonated...if the actual detonation did not occur in the future?