ECT "Lordship 'Salvation'"-perverting the gospel of Christ

lifeisgood

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Paul had to obey Jesus to be saved.

How much OBEYING was Paul OBEYING before the Lord knocked him off his horse and saved him.

BEFORE being knocked off his horse: 'Went to the leaders, give me letters so I can go and smash the Way.'

AFTER being saved by the Resurrected Lord of Glory knocking him off his horse: 'Lord, what you want me to do?'

He also had a water baptism and did not preach against water baptism.

Incorrect.

He spoke against people not understanding what water baptism is and rebuked them for making it into something wrong.

Incorrect.
 

lifeisgood

New member
Much of some of what was permissible was that which was "winked at" by God. It, however, was looked upon as law by tradition, I guess, within the Hebrew community and of course elsewhere. Read the account of David and Solomon re concubines and the many, many wives, to see it hadn't changed even when the written law came about. Seeing this we can better accept the latitude given Abraham when interpreting the means by which a son would be born of Sarah.

What I like to think is God foreknew all of this of Abraham-Ishmael to use for creating what we presently witness in the world today re Islam for ushering in of the end of this age.

Hope that helps.

No wonder God decided before the foundation of the world that He was going to deal with humankind by the means of Mercy. Once God decided on Mercy, then He had no other choice but to extend Grace.

Praise His name for His Mercy coupled with His Grace or there would be no hope for anybody.
 

Jacob

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The covenant being redemption as its foundation, was given to all men, everywhere. First to the of house of Israel was it made known. When they rejected it was it then opened for the gentiles for their understanding. Enter Paul.
Only when redemption is made clear can immediate salvation and progressive salvation, be understood.

Gentiles were added to the number, to the church.
 

Jacob

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Say what you want, it matters not; Acts 3 relates the blotting out of THEIR sin is after the Lord returns.

I know well what you are saying. And you are wrong; Acts 2 is NEITHER the BEGINNING of the church mentioned in Matt. 16, NOR is it THAT Church which is His Body.

Please take the time to see that the new covenant already came.
 

God's Truth

New member
How much OBEYING was Paul OBEYING before the Lord knocked him off his horse and saved him.

BEFORE being knocked off his horse: 'Went to the leaders, give me letters so I can go and smash the Way.'

AFTER being saved by the Resurrected Lord of Glory knocking him off his horse: 'Lord, what you want me to do?'



Incorrect.



Incorrect.

He had to obey to be saved.
 

Cross Reference

New member
No wonder God decided before the foundation of the world that He was going to deal with humankind by the means of Mercy. Once God decided on Mercy, then He had no other choice but to extend Grace.

Praise His name for His Mercy coupled with His Grace or there would be no hope for anybody.

Amen! And again I say, Amen!! I believe I have needed His mercy far more than His grace. You know, that hasn't changed one whit because of my new birth from above. It has been my experience that the need for both only intensifies as He calls us up to something higher in Him. . . :)
 

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Jesus saved Paul after Paul believed and obeyed him.

When Paul was on the road to Damascus, Jesus spoke to him and Paul believed. Paul was not then saved.
Like others here, I've noticed that you are always speaking in INCOMPLETE sentences.

WHAT did Paul believe?

You never listen to Paul when he explains the order of things:
Eph 1:12-14 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:12) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. (1:13) In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (1:14) Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Paul does NOT put obedience BETWEEN the believing of the gospel and sealing with the Holy Spirit!

It real easy:
  • TRUSTED AFTER you HEARD the GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION
  • SEALED with the Holy Spirit AFTER you BELIEVED
Acts 9:5 "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied.

6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."…

Paul had to obey Jesus before Jesus saved him...Paul had to go where Jesus told him to go; Paul went.
Wrong again. Paul tells us that we are saved UNTO good works.
Eph 2:4-10 (AKJV/PCE)
(2:4) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, (2:5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) (2:6) And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: (2:7) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Notice that Paul CLEARLY shows us that God "quickened us together with Christ" WHEN we were dead in sins. THIS salvation is BY GRACE through FAITH. But YOU keep trying to make it YOUR obedience that makes it happen.

After Paul went, he fasted; he did not eat or drink anything for three days.

Acts 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

Paul spent this time praying. If you do not think that Paul spent this time begging for forgiveness and repenting, then you would be badly mistaken.
Once AGAIN, some SCRIPTURAL proof we be WONDERFUL.

God gave Paul work to do, but the Bible NEVER tells us that this in order to be saved.

Acts 9:11 The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying.

When Paul had his vision restored to him, he was told to get up, be baptized and wash his sins away, calling on the Lord.

When people were baptized with water that was symbolic of having their sins washed away, after they repented.

In addition, people came out of the water after repenting and being baptized, they called upon the name of the Lord.

We are told to believe, and repent, and to call upon the name of the Lord.

Romans 10:13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Acts 22:16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.'
This is a nice religion that you have. But you continue to take it out of context and chop OUT what Paul writes in his epistles AFTER he received the revelation of the mystery (of which you clearly have no knowledge).

Romans 10 does NOT say ANYTHING about WATER before "calling on the name of the Lord".

Paul did what we all are told to do.
NOWHERE in scripture does God connect Paul's obedience with his salvation.

As a matter of fact, it does say that Paul was the FIRST one saved purely by God's grace WHILE HE WAS AN ENEMY!
1Tim 1:16 (KJV)
(1:16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Did Paul obtain this MERCY because he obeyed or because God is merciful? Why does Paul NOT include obedience in THIS CLEAR STATEMENT?
 

Jacob

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Banned
I am as well speaking of it in the afterwards of Pentecost. Now, I ask again the same question.
Pentecost is an annual celebration. The term is most often used by Christians. But this fiftieth day is a Jewish observance, holy day, celebration, called Shavuot (this is not the only name).

The where this occurred is recorded in the early part of the book of the Acts of the Apostles. I can get you a reference if you need it.
 

Jacob

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Banned
No, they were not all from the tribe of Judah. See Acts 7:38 for a much earlier church.
Acts 7:38 “This is the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness together with the angel who was speaking to him on Mount Sinai, and who was with our fathers; and he received living oracles to pass on to you.
 

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Acts 7:38 “This is the one who was in the congregation in the wilderness together with the angel who was speaking to him on Mount Sinai, and who was with our fathers; and he received living oracles to pass on to you.
Were you thinking that I don't have a Bible?

Acts 7:38 (AKJV/PCE)
(7:38) This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:





 

Jacob

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Banned
Were you thinking that I don't have a Bible?

Acts 7:38 (AKJV/PCE)
(7:38) This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:






No, I was not thinking that you don't have a Bible. I don't know why you think that or why you are asking me that now. I quoted or posted the verse because you posted a reference for it. It is a courtesy at minimum. But my purpose is in following what you are saying. I already know of this verse. But, posting the verse shows that I understand what you are talking about.
 
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