ECT "Lordship 'Salvation'"-perverting the gospel of Christ

[God's Truth]

The Lord Jesus Christ, Paul, John the B, Peter used " verbal abuse" to those that were vipers, serpents, devils, whited walls, children of the devil, ravenous wolves, dogs-you.

John the baptizer said that to those who would NOT REPENT of their SINS.

Jesus said that to those who did not REPENT of their SINS.

Paul said that to those who attacked him for preaching repent of sins.

 

[God's Truth]

I'm not criticizing you for criticizing another--that is expected of us to some degree, if we are to keep each other accountable. I'm suggesting that your criticism is misdirected and inconsistent, complaining about someone doing something that you yourself were doing.

But to GT's point, should we really criticize someone for following Jesus as Lord? Should we really criticize someone for wanting to find out what Jesus wants them to do and doing it? Maybe none of us figures out exactly what Jesus wants us to do, but the very act of searching is an act of submission to our Lord (two concepts--"lord" and "submission"--that seem to need each other and are the topic of this thread, I think), and I sure wouldn't want to dissuade anyone from doing that, would you?

By the way, thanks for a good response, without jeers and reviling. I need to be questioned just like most every body here at some point.

And do I do EVERYTHING Jesus said to do? No, as He said to his disciples, "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised". Which is a ridiculous thing for us. Or, "What you are about to do, do quickly", Which certainly is not applicable to everything we do.

But do we thereby ignore things like "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", or "Love the Lord your God with all your heart...", or Matt 18:15? Context of His commands are as important now as they were then. We don't reject everything Jesus said, just because some things don't apply.

I don't remember GT saying that we need to "tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ." So if that's what you were thinking about her, then maybe we've cleared up some confusion. Praise the Lord!

Here's what GT said in a different thread:

That means he fulfilled the Law and the Prophets.
What does that mean?
That means that the shadow was gone in Christ.
That means that every old law, the purification/ceremonial works were about Jesus.
A shadow comes before a man when the light is behind the person.
In Jesus, there is no shadow, for Jesus is light.
We no longer obey the teaching tools, the shadow that was from Jesus, who was coming.​

There may be some disagreement as to what things still need to be obeyed, but surely you two are both coming from the same point of view and are straining at gnats compared to what we know--that Jesus died to save us from our sins, not so we can continue in them (Rom 6:2), nor be on the broad path the leads to destruction, but so that we can have life.

And maybe GT still has some things to learn from you. Will she learn those things better with reviling or with gentleness and respect (2 Tim 2:25). Not saying I'm that good at this, either--still much sanctification needed here.

There is something you do not know about them, for they teach we do not have to obey anything to be saved, and we do not have to do anything to stay saved.

 

[Derf]

Oh. As if I was asking you to interpret it? Sit-you are not in my league, and that bong has caused you to miss devil child GT's "verbal abuse" argument.

Sure you did. You responded to my post, which is an implicit, specific request for a response. Just like starting an new thread is an implicit, general request for a response.

And I never claimed to be in your league, nor would I want to be.

Nor did I miss the so-called verbal abuse argument. I just pointed out that your defense of your position with GT was in opposition to your OP. You're arguing with yourself. No need for anyone to be in your league with you when that's the case.

 

[Derf]

There is something you do not know about them, for they teach we do not have to obey anything to be saved, and we do not have to do anything to stay saved.

I'm not sure that's a fair assessment of what "they" teach, and I'm sure you wouldn't want me to ask them for what you teach, as it would be biased against you. But it's excruciatingly tedious to get some of "them" to give a clear depiction of what "they" teach. Let me know if you find it spelled out anywhere. For now, I'm going off of the OP, which should be sufficient for this discussion, if one could call it a discussion.

 

[God's Truth]

I'm not sure that's a fair assessment of what "they" teach, and I'm sure you wouldn't want me to ask them for what you teach, as it would be biased against you. But it's excruciatingly tedious to get some of "them" to give a clear depiction of what "they" teach. Let me know if you find it spelled out anywhere. For now, I'm going off of the OP, which should be sufficient for this discussion, if one could call it a discussion.

I thought they were calling you a child of the devil because you taught we are to obey Jesus?

 

[God's Truth]

I'm not sure that's a fair assessment of what "they" teach, and I'm sure you wouldn't want me to ask them for what you teach, as it would be biased against you.

They are those here whose beliefs are that of TOL. They are allowed to speak to us the way they do because they have the beliefs accepted by TOL.

It is in the rules here.

 

[God's Truth]

The Biblical order is sonship/justification, then service/sanctification. Those who reverse this biblical order are putting the proverbial "horse before the cart," and are confusing service to God the Father as sons, with service to become adopted sons. Those who make statements such as "make Jesus Lord of your life", "turn your life over to Jesus, give your life to Jesus", despite the fact that the heart of the gospel is the Lord Jesus Christ giving His life for us, and has nothing to do with us giving him anything, make this deadly error. The LORD God needs nothing from us(Acts 17:25 KJV, Job 35:7 KJV, Haggai 2:8 KJV) and is not, and will not, condition/make "giving our life to Him"(service) the basis for His acceptance of us. Again, The LORD God has accepted the Lord Jesus Christ's voluntary sacrificial offering of His life, not ours, as proptiatory(satisfactory). All service is a priviledged responsibility given as a gift to those who have been declared adopted sons by faith in the finished and faithful work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Holy means "sanctified"=set aside for God's purpose. But God only uses those instruments that are His sons, and "saints" describes those who are already justified=His="in Christ". And the LORD God would have us know this biblical order in Corithians-Paul calls the Corinthians, the most carnal, dirty, lustful group of believer what? Saints-not sinners.

Consider the book of Galatians, which is a stern, severe, corrective, and solemn message-there is no word of commendation, praise or thanksgiving. Paul's "heart" is laid bare here as the letters are peppered with deep emotion and strong feeling. This is his "fighting epistle"-he is on a war path, with no tolerance for legalism! It is the declaration of freedom from all types of legalism. While Romans was from Paul's "head" with its lawyerly, systematic treatise on justification by faith, and faith alone, Galatians was from his heart. It is the boldest, strongest declaration and defense(as is this brilliant, humble post) of the doctrine of justification by faith in and out of the scriptures, and, as such, is God's polemic on behalf of the most vital truth of the Christian truth against any attack. That is, not only is a sinner saved by grace through faith(not commitment), but the saved sinner lives by grace(sanctification=commitment=the Christian "walk"). But we must not confuse justification(the declaration of righteousness) with sanctification! Yes, we are saved from the penalty of sin(justification), the power of sin(sanctification), and the presense of sin(glorification), but these are not equivalent biblical doctrines, and people are perverting the gospel of Christ by putting the proverbial "horse before the cart", i. e., they are placing sanctification=commitment=give your life to Christ in the wrong biblical order-as a "prerequisite" to justification, or as the means to justification. No, No, No!! Interestingly enough, Paul had nothing but condemnation for the Galatians, and yet, for the Corinthians, as mentioned, the most carnal bunch of Christians, who were engaged in adultery, drunkeness, gluttony.....he had words of encouragement, and never questioned their justification, as witnessed by his continual reference to them as "in Christ", and as saints. This should be an object lesson for us all, and should cause each of us to cry with joy and praise for the truly amazing grace bestowed upon e! ach one of us wherby we are made "...accepted in the beloved...."(Ephesians 1:6 KJV) by this great God of ours(Psalms 145:3 KJV). And this should be our motivation to "...walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called...."(Ephesians 4:1 KJV), "..walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God...."(Colossians 1:10 KJV), "...walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory...."(1 Thessalonians 2:12 KJV), "..walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more...."(1 Thessalonians 4:1 KJV),."...as children of light...."(Ephesians 5:8 KJV), which is our "....reasonable service...."(Romans 12:1 KJV) as sons.

The Corinthians did NOT get talked into being CIRCUMCISED. The Galatians were talked into doing the ceremonial/purification acts the Jews USED TO have to do. That is why Paul rebuked the Galatians.

How you get the Corinthians were sinners and not rebuked for sinning is beyond me.

 

[Derf]

I thought they were calling you a child of the devil because you taught we are to obey Jesus?

I thought john w was calling me a child of the devil because he didn't have any intelligent arguments to propose.

But to your point, if john w was really plagiarizing J. Vernon McGee (which was brought up and verified in earlier posts) and agreeing with Dr McGee, who was in no way someone who had dismissed all parts of the law, then it seems like you (and I) may have misinterpreted what john w was trying to say. I say "may" because I haven't been able to get any useful information out of john w about what he really is trying to say.

As I said in the posts to Tambora, if john w is really a child of God and brother in the Lord, then I need to make my defense with gentleness and respect, even if he doesn't. If he's not, then even more do I need to not revile in turn, in hopes that he will repent and believe. At some point, if he is unwilling to converse like a brother in Christ, and continues to berate and revile the believers, much like the wolves he likes to invoke against us, then I guess I shake the dust off my shoes and move on to something more profitable for the kingdom.

 

[God's Truth]

No one would disagree with anyone who would say we should "live a holy life before God"(sanctification),

You go against people all the time for saying we have to obey.

As for sanctification that is when Jesus' blood cleans us, after we repent of our sins. That is when we are saved and given the Holy Spirit, after Jesus accepts us.

See Acts 5:32.

but not as a basis for our acceptance by Him-not as our basis for justification! We live a holy life because we are sons, because we are justified, because we are saved, not to be adopted sons not to be justified, not to be saved..

There isn't a bad time to obey Jesus. There isn't a better time to obey Jesus.

No one has,or can, truly(and this is a subjective criteria)repent(ed) of all their sins", no one has, or can "surrender 100% to the Lordship of Jesus Christ"(and this is a subjective criteria), no one has "put away the things or our previous life and life style", no one has, or can, "live(d) for God 100%",

You are not saying what the scriptures say, for we are told TO DIE to the sins of the world and raise up to live to Jesus. How do you ever get that is not 100%?

for all have been pronounced "guilty"(Romans 3:19 KJV), and "...come short of the glory of God...."(Romans 3:23 KJV), in not only what we do, but what we do not do, and how we think. Sin is not just "wrong doing", it is "wrong being". Nor will the LORD God accept any offering these acts of service as a basis for justification, but will only accept the death by blood offering of the Lord Jesus Christ's spotless life, not ours, and his resurrection, as a basis for our justification as sons.

Those scriptures are about the Jews being sinners just like the Gentiles.

Phrases such as "giving one's life, heart("commitment") is not the proper object of faith. Again, salvation has nothing to do with "giving" God anything! Salvation is not my gift to God. Rather, it is the issue of receiving a gift from God. The issue in salvation is not what we give to Him, but what He gives to us-eternal life. The issue is not giving your life to Christ-it is Christ giving up His life as an atoning sacrifice for you. Salvation has nothing to do with "giving up your life", "surrendering your life".........-It was the Lord Jesus Christ who gave up His life and made full surrender when he yielded His life at Calvary.

Jesus says he remains in the Father's love because he obeyed, and that we have to obey to remain his his love.

John 15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commandments and remain in his love.


Jesus doesn't just make his home with anyone.

Jesus makes his home with those who obey him.


John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Again, when a lost person is told to "surrender his life, give his life to Jesus, commit his life to Jesus.........", this wrongly presumes that a person has something worthy to give(whether that is time, money, service......), and confuses service/sanctification with salvation. It requires a "commitment" to serve Christ "up front" before salvation, and it presents a work-based performance system as a basis for acceptance by God.

The gospel was SENT to those who do right.

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Acts 10:35; and John 3:21.

Phrases such as "Give your heart to Jesus" may sound very romantic, but we are not saved by "falling in love with Jesus"-we are saved by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work at Calvary and His resurrection 3 days later. Giving one's heart, life(commitment) is an activity of service to the Lord, and and, as such, service and dedication is something the LORD appeals to believers to do(Romans 12:1-2 KJV, for eg.). But this is service from those who have become his own. The biblical order is sonship, then service. Service, then sonship is a work-based performance system, as typified by the Roman Catholic Organization, and "perverts the gospel of Christ"(Gal. 1:7 KJV). Statements such as " ...I believe salvation is a journey; it is not a moment in time" reflect this mindset and false doctrine. Sanctification is a journey, but justification is not. Justification is a "moment in time" declaration of righteousness, based on the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus says you are not blessed as a family member and friend until you obey.


John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."


John 13:17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

Practically every false doctrine is a result of "getting things out of order", as I mentioned previously. The divine order is justification, then change/sanctification, not change/sanctification and then salvation. Notice in Romans 4:5 KJV, God "justifieth the ungodly,"/Romans 5:6 KJV, "Christ died for the ungodly"-no "fixing yourself up first", no "stop sinning first".......... Notice in Romans 5:8 KJV, "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us". Again, those who make statements such as "make Jesus Lord of your life", "turn your life over to Jesus, give your life to Jesus, commit your life to Jesus"(despite the fact that the heart of the gospel is the Lord Jesus Christ giving His life for us, and has nothing to do with us giving him anything!) make this deadly error-confusing sancification with justification.

Reconciled while enemies is about the GENTILES.

Paul is explaining that Jesus did not just die for the Jews, the Jews who performed the commanded various laws and regulations. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, even for the sins of the enemies of God. The Gentiles were the enemies.

Colossians 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.

Reconciled while enemies is about the GENTILES not having to become a Jew first and get CIRCUMCISED.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,


The GENTILES WERE ENEMIES BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT CIRCUMCISED IN THE FLESH.

Jesus still saved them WHILE THEY WERE UNCIRCUMCISED ENEMIES.

Many error by thinking that "stop sinning"=acts of commission "solves the sin issue". You could "stop sinning" all the rest of your life(which is a self righteous pride that no one can do),

There is never a bad time to obey Jesus. You cannot shame people for obeying.

 

[john w]

John the baptizer said that to those who would NOT REPENT of their SINS.

Jesus said that to those who did not REPENT of their SINS.

Paul said that to those who attacked him for preaching repent of sins.

The Lord Jesus Christ, Paul, John the B, Peter used " verbal abuse" to those that were vipers, serpents, devils, whited walls, children of the devil, ravenous wolves, dogs-you.

Viper-ette. Ravenous wolf-ette. Child of the devil. Hypocrite. Whited wall.Dog-ette.

 

[john w]

You go against people....................spam.........................

“I do not sin. I have stumbled....I do everything that Jesus tells me to do..... Everything Jesus says stands forever…. Jesus' words are for everyone........We always have to obey God ...We always have to obey Jesus….........I obey all of Jesus' teachings....I follow all of Jesus teachings, exactly as he says…..Faith is obeying everything that Jesus says."”-God’sUNTruth


"Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe
Do you obey ALL His teachings?"

“Yes.”-God’sUNTruth



Peekaboo...we see you, unconvicted child of the devil.

 

[God's Truth]

The Lord Jesus Christ, Paul, John the B, Peter used " verbal abuse" to those that were vipers, serpents, devils, whited walls, children of the devil, ravenous wolves, dogs-you.

Viper-ette. Ravenous wolf-ette. Child of the devil. Hypocrite. Whited wall.Dog-ette.

You are no John the baptizer, Paul the Apostle, or Jesus Christ Lord and Savior.

Those words were used to those that did not REPENT of their sins.



Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

 

[God's Truth]

The Lord Jesus Christ, Paul, John the B, Peter used " verbal abuse" to those that were vipers, serpents, devils, whited walls, children of the devil, ravenous wolves, dogs-you.

Viper-ette. Ravenous wolf-ette. Child of the devil. Hypocrite. Whited wall.Dog-ette.

Colossians 3:23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

 

[john w]

"As for sanctification that is when Jesus' blood cleans us, after we repent of our sins. That is when we are saved and given the Holy Spirit, after Jesus accepts us."-GodsUNTruth

What sin/sins? The Saviour died for every last one of them, forgiving me all of my trespasses. Good news. You reject the good news. Thus, enjoy your trip to hell.

Tell us the sins of which we need to repent, as in "stop sinning"(your satanic definition of "repent") those sins for which the Lord Jesus Christ did not die. List them, that are not in the "all trespasses" category.

Have you repented of all of your sins? Save your response-it's a rhetorical q. You have not. No one has. Hence, the reason the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins, and was raised for our justification, of which you are clueless. You reject that provision, as you have not been convicted.

Get saved, wolf-ette.

 

[God's Truth]

Paul tells us to work and do good, and that God does NOT show favoritism.


Romans 2:11 For God does not show favoritism.

Colossians 3:25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

 

[john w]

Sure you did. You responded to my post, which is an implicit, specific request for a response. Just like starting an new thread is an implicit, general request for a response.

And I never claimed to be in your league, nor would I want to be.

Nor did I miss the so-called verbal abuse argument. I just pointed out that your defense of your position with GT was in opposition to your OP. You're arguing with yourself. No need for anyone to be in your league with you when that's the case.

Made up. I did not ask, nor do I need, your interpretation. You missed it-"verbal abuse"-be "nice."

You are not in my league. Now, sit, BooBoo.

 

[john w]

How you get the Corinthians were sinners and not rebuked for sinning is beyond me.

"not rebuked for sinning is beyond me."-you

I never said that, demon.

Clueless. Paul never refers to any saved, justified member of the boc as "sinners." He calls them "saints."


Saint John W-memorize that, child of the devil.

 

[john w]

You are no John the baptizer, Paul the Apostle, or Jesus Christ Lord and Savior.

Those words were used to those that did not REPENT of their sins.



Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

Neither are you, so stop quoting the Lord Jesus Christ, JTB, Paul, demon.

The words I used were used to those that were children of the devil, ravenous wolves..............................................., such as yourself-you.

 

[patrick jane]

Paul tells us to work and do good, and that God does NOT show favoritism.


Romans 2:11 For God does not show favoritism.

Colossians 3:25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

You have much to be repaid for

 

[john w]

Paul tells us to work and do good, and that God does NOT show favoritism.


Romans 2:11 For God does not show favoritism.

Colossians 3:25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.

“I do not sin. I have stumbled....I do everything that Jesus tells me to do..... Everything Jesus says stands forever…. Jesus' words are for everyone........We always have to obey God ...We always have to obey Jesus….........I obey all of Jesus' teachings....I follow all of Jesus teachings, exactly as he says…..Faith is obeying everything that Jesus says."”-God’sUNTruth


"Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe
Do you obey ALL His teachings?"

“Yes.”-God’sUNTruth