I don't see "many" as a contradiction to "all".
Certainly "all" are "many".
Limited atonement !
- Thread starter beloved57
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Certainly "all" are "many".
beloved57
Well-known member
All of the many !
God did not just make atonement for the elect, but for all men so that whosoever would might be saved.
1 Timothy 2:6
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
I agree.
The atonement is out there to be partaken of.
Some are just not interested in profiting from the Lord's largess.
beloved57
Well-known member
Thats all men by nature, for all men by nature are against and disinterested in the True God. Rom 3. For a person to come to have spiritual interest in the things of God, they must first be born again
Sinners do not get saved before they call on God for salvation. They get drawn by the Holy Spirit to Jesus, but not all who are called by the Holy Ghost end up getting saved.
Matthew 22:3
And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
I don't see it that way at all.
I couldn't walk in newness of life until I had, of my own free will, repented of sin and been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sin. (Rom 6:3-7)
That "newness of life" required some steps by me first.
God didn't force me to believe, or anything else I am required to do.
I agree. God as the Master Potter did not pre-determine to make some vessels to honor and some to dishonor as He chose according to His own will without regard to the whims of the clay. If the clay hardened itself in His hand, then God had to remake it a vessel of dishonor for the reason that He could not make it a good vessel.
Jeremiah 18:4
And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
At the last day's judgement, everyone will know their atonement had always been available to them.
beloved57
Well-known member
Naturally men are enmity against God. Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Man naturally cant be subject to God, dont have the ability.
Rom 8:7 says a "carnal mind", not man himself.
Rom 8:5 says..."For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."
Some men are "after the Spirit" instead of after the flesh.
Thanks be to God !
beloved57
Well-known member
Cant seperate mans mind from himself. Man by nature is enmity against God and not subject to God and cant be.
You make a mockery of God and His word when you suggest humans cannot humble themselves and repent of their sins without God making them do so.
Isaiah 66:2
For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
I once had that carnal mind, but don't anymore...thanks be to God.
I thank God for the death and burial of my old man, and for making it possible for me to be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)
beloved57
Well-known member
Nevertheless man by nature cant and dont come to God, hates God.
Thank God that some conquer their old nature by their fear of God.
beloved57
Well-known member
Thats pride and self righteousness. By nature man is dead to God !
Pride in God, perhaps.
And the righteousness is of Him.
As it is written..."But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:" (Rom 3:21-22)
Thanks be to God that not all are trapped by a "nature".
beloved57
Well-known member
Only those Christ died for, Gods elect are delivered from death, thats why its limited atonement. All do not remained trapped by nature as you say, unless Christ didnt die for them, they remained trapped by a nature as you say.
How can we assume that God is love if He deliberately designed lost souls to be unable to repent of sins so He could burn them in hell forever?