You seem to differentiate those who accept our Lord's loving sacrifice from those who don't and call it limited atonement.
The atonement is for everybody, but not all are willing to partake.
That isn't "limited", it is "refused-atonement".
Limited atonement !
- Thread starter beloved57
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The atonement is for everybody, but not all are willing to partake.
That isn't "limited", it is "refused-atonement".
beloved57
Well-known member
The atonement, Christs death saves a person. Those who arent saved is because Christ didnt die for them. His atonement is limited to the saved. See you are conditioning salvation on what man does, thats against the death of Christ and its saving efficacy !
False.
"We shall be saved by His LIFE"
Romans 5:10
Scripture cannot be more clear.
Wrong.
For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” - Romans 10:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:13&version=NKJV
Scripture cannot be more clear.
In mercy and truth Atonement is provided for iniquity; And by the fear of the Lord one departs from evil. - Proverbs 16:6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs16:6&version=NKJV
Wrong.
God conditions His saving of someone on whether they call upon His name (Romans 10:13). He provides atonement for those who have sinned (Proverbs 16:6). Those who call upon Him are saved by His life (Romans 5:10).
Which isn't a Biblical concept to begin with.
Christ death reconciles, it does not save.
beloved57
Well-known member
Being saved by His Life is the same , for He rose from the dead showing the saving efficacy of His death. They are connected, you cant separate them . So by you admitting that those He died for are saved by His life, you unwittingly confirm that they are saved by His death.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
I quoted scripture. You have mere assertion.
Wrong.
His rising from the dead shows His power.
His willingness to die on the cross shows us His love.
His death reconciled the entire world to Himself, and His life saves those who call upon Him.
That's what scripture says.
I never said otherwise.
Scripture, Paul in particular, is the one making the distinction between the two. If you have an issue with that, take it up with him.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
Then Christ is to be judged for the sins of those He chose not to save...right?
I mean, how can a man be found guilty of any sin he did when if he had been in Christ he wouldn't have committed?
God's atonement is limited to those who will receive it, with repentance from sin and adherence to the doctrine which is according to Godliness.
God doesn't limit it, man does.
beloved57
Well-known member
Christs atonement is limited to those who are saved by it, then they believe. Believing depends on the efficacious power of the death of Christ.
Is that a typo where you wrote "then"?
Should it have been "when" they believe?
The use of the word "limited" seems to be used in two different ways, creating disharmony here.
It is in fact limited, but only because not all will avail themselves of it.
It isn't God's fault some won't repent of sin and get washed by the sanctifying blood of Christ and others do.
In a sense, you are correct.
Without the power of the death (and resurrection) of Christ, no one would believe.
However, those who choose not to believe are not being restrained from belief by God.
God isn't the one "limiting" atonements.
beloved57
Well-known member
No its not a typo. Also those who dont believe is because they were not of Christs Sheep whom He specifically died for Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
If they would have been of His Sheep which He layed down His Life for Jn 10:11,15 they would be given Faith to believe, Christs death secures Faith for them.
Whose fault is it that "they" are not the Lord's sheep?
beloved57
Well-known member
It aint no ones fault. God just didnt choose them to be His Sheep.
Then it is God's fault that your loved ones will not find their names in the book of life on the last day.
You fail to realize that, because of your doctrine, we will on the day of judgement, be accusing God for the destruction of all those He did not choose.
I can't agree with your doctrine in the least.
He gave us all the keys to heaven.
Not just some of us.
beloved57
Well-known member
It aint no ones fault. God just didnt choose them to be His Sheep. Be careful about laying fault on God my friend.
You're the one asserting that "God just didn't choose them." so who else should be blamed according to your position?
What better excuse does the unbeliever have than "God didn't love me enough to choose me" according to your position?
By saying that, you call Paul's words into question, or worse, you call him a liar:
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. - Romans 1:18-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans1:18-21&version=NKJV
This is putting the cart before the horse.
Scripture says the reverse of what you say.
beloved57
Well-known member
Aint no blame if God doesnt choose someone to be saved, Grace is undeserved.
beloved57
Well-known member
Believing on Christ is resultive and the fruit of His death. I have explained that from scripture numerous times.
Actually, there is. Deadly negligence is a crime.
“When you build a new house, then you shall make a parapet for your roof, that you may not bring guilt of bloodshed on your household if anyone falls from it. - Deuteronomy 22:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy22:8&version=NKJV
"It's not MY fault that the man fell off my roof and died when I didn't put a railing up to prevent people from falling off..." is no excuse at all.
You're asserting that God didn't put up a "parapet" for unbelievers, therefore it's not His fault when the unbelievers fall off the roof.
No, it's not. And your "explanations" contradict plain scripture, which NEVER puts belief after salvation.
Who else's fault will it be?
You are laying the groundwork for the devil to be able to say..."See how unfair and hateful God is?
Follow me instead !"
I was reading 1 Tim. 2:3-6 tonight at Subway, and saw..."For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."
We are obviously serving different Gods.