Limited Atonement Means Limited Faith

[Robert Pate]

To NOT believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world is to not believe the Gospel. This is very, very, serious. To not believe the Gospel means that you are outside of the faith. No one will be saved that is not resting in the work and person of Jesus for their salvation, Hebrews 4:3, 10.

The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus is the savior of the whole world. To say that he is not is to call him a liar.

"I came not to judge the world but to save the world" John 12:47.

"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son" John 3:16.

"And he is a propitiation for our sins; and not ours only but for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2.

"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world" 1 John 4:14.

What it comes down to is do you believe and have faith that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world. To not believe or to not have faith in this work that Jesus has done is to not believe the Gospel. No one will be saved that does not believe the Gospel, plain and simple.

Paul said that the Gospel "Is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes" Romans 1:16. To everyone that believes the Gospel. If you don't believe then you don't have salvation.

If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world then Jesus is not Lord. The reason that God made Jesus both Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36 is because Jesus victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15. To say that he didn't defeat sin, death and the devil is to call the apostles liars.

"Wherefore God has highly exalted Jesus and has given him a name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is LORD to the glory of God the Father" Philippians 2:9, 10, 11.

No one will be saved that does not believe that Jesus is Lord. It is by faith that we believe that Jesus was able to atone for our sins and the sins of the whole world. To NOT believe this means that one has limited faith or no faith.

 

[fishrovmen]

so what you are saying is that I can believe that Jesus died by bearing my sins, making full and complete satisfaction to take away Gods wrath for my sins, believe that by faith and through faith He is my righteousness, Lord and savior etc but still be told that its not enough? you are adding to the gospel and therefore accursed!

 

[fishrovmen]

What's next Pate? Do we have to believe that God imputes previously forgiven sins back to people like you do to be saved? Do we have to believe that God sees people in one thread, then He doesn't in the next, then He does again, then He doesn't to be saved, just like you? You love to make stuff up and add your own rules and opinions to the Holy Word of God and act like it's some lost "Historical Gospel" that only you seem to have.
Wake up before it's too late Pate!

 

[Cruciform]

Limited Atonement Means Limited Faith

QUESTION: Will every individual human being---past, present, and future---be saved, yes or no?​

 

[Bright Raven]

QUESTION: Will every individual human being---past, present, and future---be saved, yes or no?​

That is an of course not.

 

[Cruciform]

That is an of course not.

I'll wait for Pate's response, since the question was addressed specifically to him.

 

[patrick jane]

so what you are saying is that I can believe that Jesus died by bearing my sins, making full and complete satisfaction to take away Gods wrath for my sins, believe that by faith and through faith He is my righteousness, Lord and savior etc but still be told that its not enough? you are adding to the gospel and therefore accursed!

he said nothing of the sort - did i read the same thing you did ? you just assed words pate didn't use -

where did he tell you it's not enough to believe/have faith ?

 

[patrick jane]

To NOT believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world is to not believe the Gospel. This is very, very, serious. To not believe the Gospel means that you are outside of the faith. No one will be saved that is not resting in the work and person of Jesus for their salvation, Hebrews 4:3, 10.

The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus is the savior of the whole world. To say that he is not is to call him a liar.

"I came not to judge the world but to save the world" John 12:47.

"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son" John 3:16.

"And he is a propitiation for our sins; and not ours only but for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2.

"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world" 1 John 4:14.

What it comes down to is do you believe and have faith that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world. To not believe or to not have faith in this work that Jesus has done is to not believe the Gospel. No one will be saved that does not believe the Gospel, plain and simple.

Paul said that the Gospel "Is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes" Romans 1:16. To everyone that believes the Gospel. If you don't believe then you don't have salvation.

If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world then Jesus is not Lord. The reason that God made Jesus both Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36 is because Jesus victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15. To say that he didn't defeat sin, death and the devil is to call the apostles liars.

"Wherefore God has highly exalted Jesus and has given him a name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is LORD to the glory of God the Father" Philippians 2:9, 10, 11.

No one will be saved that does not believe that Jesus is Lord. It is by faith that we believe that Jesus was able to atone for our sins and the sins of the whole world. To NOT believe this means that one has limited faith or no faith.

imo, that's pretty much 100 % accurate. yep, purdy dern accrit -

 

[fishrovmen]

he said nothing of the sort - did i read the same thing you did ? you just assed words pate didn't use -

where did he tell you it's not enough to believe/have faith ?

Read the first two lines again. Robert says that if you DON'T believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world, you don't believe the Gospel and are "outside of the faith". I believe that Jesus has atoned for MY sins, regardless of how many other peoples sins He has atoned for. But according to Robert, I HAVE to believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of ALL people, or I am "outside the faith". Pretty straight forward.

 

[patrick jane]

Read the first two lines again.

i kinda read it (past tense) like he was saying "if you don't believe that Jesus died for you, then you're not in the body - I didn't see anything about old sins or imputed -

 

[fishrovmen]

i kinda read it (past tense) like he was saying "if you don't believe that Jesus died for you, then you're not in the body - I didn't see anything about old sins or imputed -

His imputation theory is from countless other threads

 

[Robert Pate]

Read the first two lines again. Robert says that if you DON'T believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world, you don't believe the Gospel and are "outside of the faith". I believe that Jesus has atoned for MY sins, regardless of how many other peoples sins He has atoned for. But according to Robert, I HAVE to believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of ALL people, or I am "outside the faith". Pretty straight forward.

To NOT believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world is to believe that Jesus is a failure and is NOT Lord.

What is it with you?

Do you think that Jesus and God made a deal with the devil? Jesus only atoned for the sins of "Some Certain Persons" that God predestinated to be saved from the foundation of the world and the devil okayed it?

Is that what you believe? Yes, you are outside of the faith.

 

[patrick jane]

Read the first two lines again. Robert says that if you DON'T believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world, you don't believe the Gospel and are "outside of the faith". I believe that Jesus has atoned for MY sins, regardless of how many other peoples sins He has atoned for. But according to Robert, I HAVE to believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of ALL people, or I am "outside the faith". Pretty straight forward.

it's wierd, i just made a post on another thread - i was being silly when i said -"He died for my sins, i dont know about yours, none of my business; between you and Him" -

i don't think like that. Jesus died for me, He died for my neighbors, my family and you too ! believe it or not -

 

[Pierac]

To NOT believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world is to not believe the Gospel. This is very, very, serious. To not believe the Gospel means that you are outside of the faith. No one will be saved that is not resting in the work and person of Jesus for their salvation, Hebrews 4:3, 10.

The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus is the savior of the whole world. To say that he is not is to call him a liar.

"I came not to judge the world but to save the world" John 12:47.

"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son" John 3:16.

"And he is a propitiation for our sins; and not ours only but for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2.

"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world" 1 John 4:14.

What it comes down to is do you believe and have faith that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world. To not believe or to not have faith in this work that Jesus has done is to not believe the Gospel. No one will be saved that does not believe the Gospel, plain and simple.

Paul said that the Gospel "Is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes" Romans 1:16. To everyone that believes the Gospel. If you don't believe then you don't have salvation.

If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world then Jesus is not Lord. The reason that God made Jesus both Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36 is because Jesus victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15. To say that he didn't defeat sin, death and the devil is to call the apostles liars.

"Wherefore God has highly exalted Jesus and has given him a name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is LORD to the glory of God the Father" Philippians 2:9, 10, 11.

No one will be saved that does not believe that Jesus is Lord. It is by faith that we believe that Jesus was able to atone for our sins and the sins of the whole world. To NOT believe this means that one has limited faith or no faith.

You contradict in your post! :readthis:


Rom 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

1Ti 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

You might be on to something?


Scripture teaches that both Faith and Belief are a Gift from God... Do you know of these scriptures?

oly::sherlock:
Paul

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

imo, that's pretty much 100 % accurate. yep, purdy dern accrit -

If Robert is your regula fidei, you should study him more carefully...

No, the bible is not a perfect work. This does not take away from it but rather enhances it. None of the men except for Christ were perfect. What makes you think that imperfect men can write a perfect book.

The bible does what it was intended to do, it reveals Christ and his gospel.

The bible is not a perfect book. It was written by men.

The sole purpose of the bible is to be a witness to the work and person of Jesus Christ. If you use it for any other purpose than that you have misused it.

It was never intended to be a book to live by.

God has a moral obligation to offer salvation to all because all are sinners without works. It is not my fault that I am a sinner, its Adam's fault. Why should I go to hell for something that Adam brought upon me.

Robert denies imperfect men could write a perfect book, and the book (the Bible) was never intended to be a book to live by, he has little concerns about the consequences of his behavior. After all, Robert has an easy way out:

I have trouble with eternal punishment. I believe that the soul of the person that has rejected Christ will be destroyed in hell, but not eternally punished.

I am hoping, but don't know for sure, that in the judgment there will be another chance to accept Christ as your savior.

What ever it is, and whatever God decides, it will be right. He is the just judge of all things.

Robert views the churches we attend as but whores:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4287177#post4287177

I am not in a box. I do not belong to a church nor am I affiliated with any sort of religious organization.

...I wouldn't attend an organized church if you paid me...

Taking all of what Robert posts and forming it into a summary would result in something along these lines...

I, Robert Pate, believe all Calvinists are lost, hate Roman Catholics, hate religion, deny the infallibility and inerrancy of Scripture, deny the Bible is a book to live by, am within my right to question the infallibility of the book of James, Acts, and any other book that disagrees with my views, deny the notion of eternal punishment in Hell in favor of psychopannychia (soul-sleep), deny Adam's sin bears any connection to my sinful nature from birth, deny my faith came by God alone and not by any single thing related to my own abilities to come to said faith. Moreover I refuse to attend any visible vestige of the Lord's Bride for corporate worship, placing myself under its ordained leadership, nor give myself access to the ordinary means of grace by Word and Sacrament.​

PJ, of course you are free to hitch your wagon to Robert's, but I pray you take the time to know where it is headed.

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

If Robert is your regula fidei, you should study him more carefully...







Robert denies imperfect men could write a perfect book, and the book (the Bible) was never intended to be a book to live by, he has little concerns about the consequences of his behavior. After all, Robert has an easy way out:




Robert views the churches we attend as but whores:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4287177#post4287177





Taking all of what Robert posts and forming it into a summary would result in something along these lines...

I, Robert Pate, believe all Calvinists are lost, hate Roman Catholics, hate religion, deny the infallibility and inerrancy of Scripture, deny the Bible is a book to live by, am within my right to question the infallibility of the book of James, Acts, and any other book that disagrees with my views, deny the notion of eternal punishment in Hell in favor of psychopannychia (soul-sleep), deny Adam's sin bears any connection to my sinful nature from birth, deny my faith came by God alone and not by any single thing related to my own abilities to come to said faith. Moreover I refuse to attend any visible vestige of the Lord's Bride for corporate worship, placing myself under its ordained leadership, nor give myself access to the ordinary means of grace by Word and Sacrament.​

PJ, of course you are free to hitch your wagon to Robert's, but I pray you take the time to know where it is headed.

AMR

Instead of trying to refute me you should be trying to show us that Calvinism is a correct doctrine.

Since you are not able to do that, you try to discredit me.

I am not ashamed of anything that I have said.

I will continue to teach the Gospel and justification by faith.

 

[Robert Pate]

You contradict in your post! :readthis:


Rom 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

1Ti 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

You might be on to something?


Scripture teaches that both Faith and Belief are a Gift from God... Do you know of these scriptures?

oly::sherlock:
Paul

Nothing is ours until we receive it. Not salvation, nor faith.

 

[Robert Pate]

QUESTION: Will every individual human being---past, present, and future---be saved, yes or no?​

Salvation has been provided for all by the doing and the dying of Jesus. Everyone has the opportunity to stand before God in the judgment as justified, based upon the life, death and resurrection of Christ.

However, NOTHING is ours until we receive it, John 1:12.

 

[fishrovmen]

To NOT believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world is to believe that Jesus is a failure and is NOT Lord.

What is it with you?

Do you think that Jesus and God made a deal with the devil? Jesus only atoned for the sins of "Some Certain Persons" that God predestinated to be saved from the foundation of the world and the devil okayed it?

Is that what you believe? Yes, you are outside of the faith.

The first thing I sang at church today was "He is Lord"!! I had a big smile on my face thinking about you Pate.

 

[StanJ]

Read the first two lines again. Robert says that if you DON'T believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world, you don't believe the Gospel and are "outside of the faith". I believe that Jesus has atoned for MY sins, regardless of how many other peoples sins He has atoned for. But according to Robert, I HAVE to believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of ALL people, or I am "outside the faith". Pretty straight forward.

Paul said if you don't believe the Jesus he preached then you don't believe in the real Jesus, and as such CANNOT be saved by a false or incomplete understanding of who and what Jesus did.

Jesus died for ALL sin to reconcile ALL men to God. That is factual and has ALREADY been accomplished. Salvation is agreeing with that fact and accepting Jesus as our savior. It's pretty simple and basic.