Let's try something new: Do we agree on anything?

[Clete]

TOL posters ... How do some of you explain the manifestation of a super-natural male presence know by men like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to be God Almighty? He ultimately was identified to the children of Israel/Jacob by Moses to be The LORD The LORD God.

Did you know that The LORD God was seen by 74 men at one time. Exodus 24:9-11

The God who created mankind and, more specifically, made the eyes with which they see things, is capable of causing them to see what He wants them to see, when, where and how He wants them to see it.

Further, there is no indication that God is intrinsically invisible, He can choose to be seen or to remain unseen and can manifest Himself in anyway He sees fit.

No special pre-creation formation of a cosmic super-man body needed.

In short, you are looking for a solution to a puzzle that doesn't exist. It's just an excuse you are using to make up needless and totally useless doctrines so that you can feel like you've discovered something.

 

[Right Divider]

Our God the Spirit is ONE with ONE created image to represent his oneness among men ... BUT that one image does not keep him from manifesting it in multiples.

Your idea of "one created image" is bizarre and cultist. That's why I keep asking you which cult you belong to.

For example: The Supernatural presence of the OT Father and as the fleshly Son in the NT as our Savior Lord Jesus.

When the Bible speaks about the Lord Jesus Christ being the "image" of God, it's not talking about a visual image. It's talking about His attributes... His character.

In the Story of Sodom ... God was representing himself as one God by using his one image in triplicate

Were did you get that idea?

... which reveals a mystery of how God would bring salvation to those who repent.

You speak in fairy tales. Where are you getting those fairy tales?

 

[Clete]

God's permissive will had allowed....

There is no such thing as "God's permissive will". There is what God desires and then there is what actually happens. They are often not the same thing.

That's the only thing in your whole post worth responding to.

 

[Ps82]

I had never heard the term Panentheism until some on TOL mentioned it. I only study my KJV Bible. My beliefs at this time. Is God is omni-present and infinite. There is no place he isn't. He did not create things out of some pile of nothing. Now there were things that did not exist ... until he created them.

What I realized is that he can command his spiritual essence to form things without loosing any of himself in the doing. He can allocate power to be where or do what he wants. He can speak laws which form boundaries between things such as ... life below the firmament and life above. He allocates and commands things to exist within him. New things, sentient beings, even measures of life can be where he wants it and within creatures. Trees can have a measure of life ... animals ... people have their measure of life in spirit and in body ... Christ had an extra measure of life than humans and that is how he rose physically from the dead.

All the while God never lost or gained anything of himself. Sort of like things just move around within him.

 

[Ps82]

Panentheism is both God in the universe and the universe in God.

Yes, I think this way.

View attachment 15177

"-En-" here is the key word part, meaning in.

Pantheism is "everything is God."

Panentheism is "God is in everything/everything is in God."

No, I do not believe that everything is God. IOW, equal with God. I believe neither humanity nor angels nor anything created can ever be equal with God the omni-present Spirit. Except Jesus may be the exception. Jesus was special ... a God-man. I have some ideas of how that works.

Now, God does have an affect on us and our Lord will be our judge and decide who receives forgiveness or not and will determine our eternal destiny ...

Do we affect him?? Hmmm ... ??? Perhaps in this way. I always think of King Saul on questions like this. Saul was chosen King by God ... God already knew he wasn't perfect. He was human after-all. His weakness was fear! Fear affected his trust in God. When he became fearful that God's prophet Samuel would not come in time to him a word and give the offering before the battle, Saul performed the ritual himself and thus disobeyed God ... well, individually what Saul did affected God for God changed his plan and ultimately removed Saul from the throne.

Once God said, He regretted ever having created mankind ... another time he wanted to destroy Israel and replace them with Moses's offspring, but Moses pleaded with God to not do that. It would have made God look bad in the eyes of the rest of the nations...

Perhaps the questions needing to be ask are: Do we have an effect on God ... or do we have an effect within our world regarding God's predestined plans? ... causing God to alter some things so that his plans are carried out anyway?

I think that is probably how it works. We don't affect God or his plans for he is in control ... but we as individuals and nations affect how he deals with us and our decisions.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Yes, I think this way.

Is God in your toilet bowl when you take a dump?

 

[Clete]

I had never heard the term Panentheism until some on TOL mentioned it.

Probably true.

I only study my KJV Bible.

DEFINITELY a lie!

My beliefs at this time. Is God is omni-present and infinite.

The omni-doctrines, including omnipresence (it is NOT a hyphenated word), are not taught anywhere in the KJV bible or any other bible for that matter.

God is certainly infinite but likely not in the way this vacuous moron means it.

There is no place he isn't. He did not create things out of some pile of nothing. Now there were things that did not exist ... until he created them.

Nonsensical.

What I realized is that he can command his spiritual essence to form things without loosing any of himself in the doing. He can allocate power to be where or do what he wants. He can speak laws which form boundaries between things such as ... life below the firmament and life above. He allocates and commands things to exist within him. New things, sentient beings, even measures of life can be where he wants it and within creatures. Trees can have a measure of life ... animals ... people have their measure of life in spirit and in body ... Christ had an extra measure of life than humans and that is how he rose physically from the dead.

Incomprehensible gibberish.

All the while God never lost or gained anything of himself. Sort of like things just move around within him.

Literal stupidity.

The conclusions that pop into your mind are not connected to the things you cite as premises to those conclusions. It's like you're just hallucinating while playing a loose association game with pot smokers and calling it doctrine.

 

[Ps82]

Is God in your toilet bowl when you take a dump?

Now, this post is really crass. No wonder TOL hardly has anyone posting any more. I figure it is still around because there are a few old timers who remember what it was like years ago. Very sad... and Judge Rightly is an Administrator and Super moderator and a Gold Subscriber. Hmmm wonder what a Gold Subscriber Is. Someone who has paid a lot of money. ?????

Please someone else comment. How about you Robots and visitors that read but never reply. Love to talk to some of you.

 

[Ps82]

Is God in your toilet bowl when you take a dump?

I'm sharing again ... just in case he choses to delete his earlier remark. I mean really!

 

[Right Divider]

I'm sharing again ... just in case he choses to delete his earlier remark. I mean really!

You're quite dumb if you cannot understand the point of his post.

 

[Derf]

Now, this post is really crass. No wonder TOL hardly has anyone posting any more. I figure it is still around because there are a few old timers who remember what it was like years ago. Very sad... and Judge Rightly is an Administrator and Super moderator and a Gold Subscriber. Hmmm wonder what a Gold Subscriber Is. Someone who has paid a lot of money. ?????

Please someone else comment. How about you Robots and visitors that read but never reply. Love to talk to some of you.

Would you answer the question? Is the answer as crass as the question?

 

[Ps82]

Would you answer the question? Is the answer as crass as the question?

Would you pose the question more coherently ... I can't answer the one about whether he paid a lot of money to gain favor. He can answer that one. You tell me what a Gold Subscriber is.

 

[Derf]

Would you pose the question more coherently ... I can't answer the one about whether he paid a lot of money to gain favor. He can answer that one. You tell me what a Gold Subscriber is.

Is God in the toilet when you are taking a dump?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Now, this post is really crass.

The truth is offensive to those who hate the Truth.

No wonder TOL hardly has anyone posting any more.

You do realize debate forums aren't as common anymore, right?

I figure it is still around because there are a few old timers who remember what it was like years ago. Very sad... and Judge Rightly is an Administrator and Super moderator and a Gold Subscriber. Hmmm wonder what a Gold Subscriber Is. Someone who has paid a lot of money. ?????

Someone who supported the forum with a subscription back when @Knight ran the place, VBulletin had plugins for it.

It's a remnant from those days.

Please someone else comment. How about you Robots and visitors that read but never reply. Love to talk to some of you.

But you won't answer the question I asked... Because you're offended?

That was the point.

The fact you find the question "crass" shows that your answer to the question must be avoided at all costs, because otherwise it exposes a fundamental flaw in your beliefs.

If you were being honest and consistent, you'd say "Yes, God is in the toilet bowl when I take a dump."

But because that would imply a connection between God and human feces, which you intuitively know is bad, and because saying "No, God is not in the toilet bowl when I take a dump" would be inconsistent with your position that God is omnipresent, the only other option that you think would let you save face is to just avoid the question.

Admit it. That one question backed you into a corner that you can't get out of except by conceding that God is not omnipresent or refusing to answer the question (which would just show that you're dishonest with everyone and yourself).

Regardless of whatever else it is that you believe, that one question should haunt you until you answer it honestly.

 

[Idolater]

$$ Ps 139:7
Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
$$ Ps 139:8
If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].
$$ Ps 139:9
[If] I take the wings of the morning, [and] dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
$$ Ps 139:10
Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
$$ Ps 139:11
If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
$$ Ps 139:12
Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light [are] both alike [to thee].

Can you flee from God in the restroom?

 

[Ps82]

Would you restate the specific question you have in mind? ... so I don't have to hunt? I hope it wasn't the one about his being in the toilet with me.

BTW, I do think God is omni-aware even to knowing what people speak in the minds. I even think he is aware when people are having sex. So there. Maybe that will make you more comfortable to know.

 

[Ps82]

$$ Ps 139:7
Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
$$ Ps 139:8
If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].
$$ Ps 139:9
[If] I take the wings of the morning, [and] dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
$$ Ps 139:10
Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
$$ Ps 139:11
If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me.
$$ Ps 139:12
Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light [are] both alike [to thee].

Can you flee from God in the restroom?

I agree with all that. Thanks Idolater... but there is something about God having manifested a literal presence in the world as Emmanuel that causes people to think they can flee from God's presence. I say it is the manifestation of God's created image. The way God speaks to people face to face as one friend to another. Moses and Abram.

The image HE had before HE created mankind. It is the literal presence of Emmanuel from which people think they can escape. Take the story of how Jonah tried to escape from God for example.

Look at how Adam and Woman hid from THE PRESENCE of the WORD of God. The one God they heard walking and talking in the Garden.

Remember what Jesus said to a group of people confronting him about who he was. May have been teachers or maybe priests. He said, You have neither heard his voice or SEEN HIS SHAPE. Seen and shape are the key words to understand that the invisible God had a way to appear among men.

Yes, the Spirit is omni-present even in our minds ... whether we like it or not. But he does have a literal physical presence which men have seen and thought they could escape God if they could get out of it's presence.