Let's talk women's rights!

[wickwoman]

BB's idea of showing you that you misunderstood him is to say "I didn't say that" over and over again, meanwhile, continuing to say what he says he didn't say and continuing to say he didn't say it. It's an interesting strategy, I will admit.

And, thank you BB for confirming that your original comment was just to make me angry. I suspected it. But, it didn't. I found it amusing at best.

 

[Poly]

I believe in a young woman's right not to be encouraged by the government to get pregnant as a teenager by telling her that they will support her and her illegitimate kids.

I support the right of a woman not to be looked at as a hero for raising kids without a dad so that future women won't be encouraged to do so.

 

[ShadowMaid]

Originally posted by Poly

I believe in a young woman's right not to be encouraged by the government to get pregnant as a teenager by telling her that they will support her and her illegitimate kids.

I support the right of a woman not to be looked at as a hero for raising kids without a dad so that future women won't be encouraged to do so.

:thumb:

 

[wickwoman]

Originally posted by Poly
I support the right of a woman not to be looked at as a hero for raising kids without a dad so that future women won't be encouraged to do so.

Do you admit that sometimes this is not so much a choice as an unavoidable circumstance?

 

[aharvey]

Originally posted by Poly

I believe in a young woman's right not to be encouraged by the government to get pregnant as a teenager by telling her that they will support her and her illegitimate kids.

I support the right of a woman not to be looked at as a hero for raising kids without a dad so that future women won't be encouraged to do so.

Okay, now you're getting a little loopy. I understand your sentiments, but you're not doing anything constructive here by calling these "rights." Next I expect you'll be saying "I support the right of a woman not to be able to marry another woman"!

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by wickwoman

Do you admit that sometimes this is not so much a choice as an unavoidable circumstance?

There would be less so called "unavoidable circumstances" if they weren't looked at as heroes.

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by aharvey

Okay, now you're getting a little loopy. I understand your sentiments, but you're not doing anything constructive here by calling these "rights."

I like to look at these rights in regards to my daughter. I don't like society encouraging her to get pregnant outside of marriage. They're trying to make it look appealing to her and I don't appreciate it. I want her to know that she has the right to see them as wicked and to know that they are lying to her when they try to suggest that there's nothing wrong with this by honoring her if she does have children outside of marriage and tries to support them without a father.

Next I expect you'll be saying "I support the right of a woman not to be able to marry another woman"!

I support the right of a woman not to be able to marry another woman.
I also support the right of a woman not to have to watch other women "marry". :vomit:

 

[wickwoman]

Dear Poly:

Nobody is making single motherhood look like a party. And, if your teenager gets pregnant because of Murphy Brown, she's watching too much T.V.

 

[Poly]

Originally posted by wickwoman

Dear Poly:

Nobody is making single motherhood look like a party.

Then you and I obviously do not live in the same world.

And, if your teenager gets pregnant because of Murphy Brown, she's watching too much T.V.

Unless I lock her in a box she'll get plenty of exposure to this tragedy.

 

[cattyfan]

most teens today don't know who Murphy Brown is. But they do see single motherhood being demonstrated as perfectly acceptable. They see Hollywood starlets who decide it's "time" to have a baby...and they treat those children like they are accessories, no different from shoes or a briefcase. They are spoiled brats who say "I want. I want a baby this week," so instead of waiting for loving stable marriage, they go ahead and get a baby from whomever with no concern for what might be best for a child.

They see single mothers in their community with people saying "don't be judgemental. Accept them with love," instead of saying this is a sad circumstance. You can love someone and still make it clear their actions are unacceptable.

They see people pretending statistics don't show that on the whole, being raised by a single parent gives children a serious disadvantage in life.

And they see government programs expanded all the time to "help" these single mothers. They can count on a monthly check to help pay the way.

Those are the things to which Poly refers.

 

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by wickwoman

BB's idea of showing you that you misunderstood him is to say "I didn't say that" over and over again,

That's because I DIDN'T say the things you attributed to me. If you weren't so stupid, you could go back and re read the debate and discover that for yourself!

meanwhile, continuing to say what he says he didn't say and continuing to say he didn't say it. It's an interesting strategy, I will admit.

See, the real problem is your blatant stupidity. You don't understand that there is a difference between local and federal governments. You want to indict me of wanting people to starve simply because I declare that it is not the role of the Federal Governemt to feed people!

You are unbelievably stupid! :dunce:

And, thank you BB for confirming that your original comment was just to make me angry. I suspected it. But, it didn't. I found it amusing at best.

I certainly said it to make you angry, but I also meant it, you are far too stupid to have a reasonable political discourse with. I hope you cook and clean house better than you debate.

 

[Gerald]

Originally posted by BillyBob
You want to indict me of wanting people to starve simply because I declare that it is not the role of the Federal Governemt to feed people!

It ain't yours, either.

Though if you get a warm, fuzzy feeling from wasting your resources, don't let me stop you... :chuckle:

 

[aharvey]

Originally posted by Poly

I like to look at these rights in regards to my daughter. I don't appreciate society encouraging her to get pregnant outside of marriage. They're trying to make it look appealing to her and I don't appreciate it. I want her to know that she has the right to see them as wicked and to know that they are lying to her when they try to suggest that there's nothing wrong with this by honoring her if she does have outside of marriage and tries to support them without a father.

Your daughter surely already has the right to see these people as wicked; I'm guessing it's more of a requirement than a right in your house! Which is my point; these aren't rights (i.e., just claims) you're talking about, and it's pointless and counterproductive to try to coyly frame them as such.

Originally posted by Poly
I support the right of a woman not to be able to marry another woman.

That's also not a "right," it is the exact opposite. You support the prevention of a woman having a just claim to marry another woman. Whether or not a woman should have the right to marry another woman is of course a big issue, but don't cloud it with this kind of vapid rhetoric. It would be like someone saying they support your right not to be able to vote. Does that make any sense to you?

Originally posted by Poly
I also support the right of a woman not to have to watch other women "marry". :vomit:

Well, for your sake, I hope you never lose that right! It is sort of hard for me to imagine that you will ever have to be forced to watch something you don't want to, though.

 

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by wickwoman

And, thank you BB for confirming that your original comment was just to make me angry. I suspected it. But, it didn't. I found it amusing at best.

Then why did you feel the need to race over to a woman's thread, post it and say that it is your right to kick a man if he says something like that?

Do you believe it is your right to kick a man?

Does a man have the right to kick you?

 

[aharvey]

Originally posted by cattyfan

most teens today don't know who Murphy Brown is. But they do see single motherhood being demonstrated as perfectly acceptable. They see Hollywood starlets who decide it's "time" to have a baby...and they treat those children like they are accessories, no different from shoes or a briefcase. They are spoiled brats who say "I want. I want a baby this week," so instead of waiting for loving stable marriage, they go ahead and get a baby from whomever with no concern for what might be best for a child.

They see single mothers in their community with people saying "don't be judgemental. Accept them with love," instead of saying this is a sad circumstance. You can love someone and still make it clear their actions are unacceptable.

They see people pretending statistics don't show that on the whole, being raised by a single parent gives children a serious disadvantage in life.

And they see government programs expanded all the time to "help" these single mothers. They can count on a monthly check to help pay the way.

Those are the things to which Poly refers.

And you don't think you're caricturizing the situation just an eensy weensy bit here? Every single paragraph here has perhaps a grain of truth to it. But every one seems also to leave out a large, large part of the story. Single motherhood perfectly acceptable? Hollywood starlets being uncritically accepted as role models for joe teen's reproductive strategy? Single motherhood not being considered a sad situation? People pretending that single motherhood is just as easy as, er, double parenthood? Government programs being expanded all the time to help single mothers? Girls deciding to have kids because they know the government will pay their way?

Pul-lease. Yes, every one of these may have happened, but to describe this as how it is in this country tells me that you are a columnist, not a reporter!

 

[cattyfan]

And you don't think you're caricturizing the situation just an eensy weensy bit here? Every single paragraph here has perhaps a grain of truth to it. But every one seems also to leave out a large, large part of the story. Single motherhood perfectly acceptable? Hollywood starlets being uncritically accepted as role models for joe teen's reproductive strategy? Single motherhood not being considered a sad situation? People pretending that single motherhood is just as easy as, er, double parenthood? Government programs being expanded all the time to help single mothers? Girls deciding to have kids because they know the government will pay their way?

Pul-lease. Yes, every one of these may have happened, but to describe this as how it is in this country tells me that you are a columnist, not a reporter!

o.k. First let me give you some statistics. The sources are noted.

Recent statistics show single motherhood on the rise, at 12 million, up from 3.4 million in 1970.

• In 1998, 26 percent of all families with children were headed by single parents. Press Release cb98-228.html, U.S. Census Bureau, www.census.gov, April 29, 1999.

• “Most single-parent children live in metropolitan areas (14.5 million), and six in 10 of them (9.2 million) are in cities with populations of 1 million or more.� “Children of single parents – how they fare,� Census Brief CENBR/97-1, September 1997.

• In 1998, an estimated 42 percent of all custodial parents had never married, 38 percent had divorced, only 5 percent were widowed, and about 15 percent were separated.
“Census Bureau Facts for Features,� U.S. Census Bureau, www.census.gov, April 29, 1999.

• In 1995, nearly six of 10 children living with mothers only were near the poverty line. About 45 percent of children raised by divorced mothers and 69 percent by never-married mothers lived in or near poverty, which was $13,003 for a family of three in 1998. Census Brief CENBR/97-1, Bureau of the Census, www.census.gov, September 1997.

• In 1999, 41 percent of all first births were born to premarital parents. Of females ages 15 to 29, 53 percent of first children were conceived out of wedlock. Press-Release (CB99-213), U.S. Census Bureau’s Public Information Office, December 20, 1999.

• Of never married women in their 30s, 40 percent have had a child. “Single Mothers, Many Faces,� by Sara Eckel, American Demographics, May 1999.

• One in five never-married women ages 15 to 44 are mothers. Press Release cb97-192.html, U.S. Census Bureau, www.census.gov, April 29, 1999.

• Two-thirds of infants born to teen mothers were fathered by adult men over age 20. “A Few Facts About Illegitimacy,� Family Research Council, www.frc.org, January 1997.

• Fifty-three percent of high school girls say it is worthwhile to have a child out of wedlock. “Snapshot of America,� Rutgers University study, The Barna Report, July-Sept. 1999.

• An estimated 25 million (40 percent) children are growing up without fathers in the home. “American Agenda,� World News Tonight with Peter Jennings, December 13, 1994.

• About 13 million (50 percent) children without fathers in the home have never even been in their fathers’ homes.
“American Agenda,� World News Tonight with Peter Jennings, December 13, 1994.

• Boys living in a fatherless home are two to three times more likely to be involved in crime, drop out of school, and get divorced. Girls living in a fatherless home are two to three times more likely to become pregnant teenagers and have their marriages end in divorce. “Heading Toward a Fatherless Society,� by Barry Kliff, MSNBC News, www.msnbc.com, March 31, 1999.

• Children of divorce do worse academically, are more prone to delinquency, are more vulnerable to the appeal of substance abuse, are more likely to bear a child out of wedlock, and are less equipped to enter marriage themselves. “Real Women Stay Married,� by Susan Orr, Washington Watch, June 2000.

• Almost 70 percent of young men in prison grew up without fathers in the home. “American Agenda,� World News Tonight with Peter Jennings, January 12, 1995.

take a close look at the statistic I put in bold. From where do you think these gilrs are getting this message?

Now consider these little pieces of our society and culture:

Jodie Foster - single mom

Calista Flockhart - single mom

When actress Dyan Cannon heard about Flockhart and her new child, she told Access Hollywood, "She needs something to love when she gets home and on her days off. "

Camryn Manheim - single mom "I'm going to be a single mom," Manheim's character on The Practice said, calling the baby's father "basically just a sperm donor."

"I don't believe I need a man in my life to raise a happy, healthy daughter," Manheim's character told millions of viewers. Manheim repeated these sentiments in her real life in several interviews.

Elizabeth Hurley - single mom

Some studies show that girls with fathers are less likely to be promiscuous, while boys with fathers are less likely to be delinquent. But watching TV, you'd think single women like Elizabeth Hurley having babies is nothing but great news.

"A woman is never more beautiful than when she's pregnant," said the Today show's Matt Lauer, who later talked to a fashion columnist about how Hurley's pregnancy changed her fashion statement.

Single moms are frequently the theme in movies: One Fine Day (Michelle Pfeiffer, George Clooney,) About a Boy (Hugh Grant,) Jerry Maguire (Tom Cruise, Renee Zellweger)

And on T.V. : Each week, more than 29 million people tune in to NBC's "Friends," making it the most watched show on television, and featuring Rachel's decision to have and raise a child alone.

When Rachel's pal Joey asked her to marry him so that she would not face this "scary" world as a single mother, Rachel squeezed his bicep, thankedhim and replied warmly, "I'm not looking for a husband."

Who is “Friends� target audience? Teens and twenty-somethings.

Sex in the City is designed to appeal to single women…and they celebrated Miranda’s impending single parenthood…the result of a one-night stand of “pity-sex.�

There are also single moms on That 70s Show, My Wife and Kids, Reba...and all of these examples are comedies. Single motherhood is now portrayed not just as acceptable, but as funny.

Typical of the way the single-mom story lines play out over time is Roz, the articulate, savvy assistant to Dr. Frasier Crane on NBC's popular "Frasier." Roz got pregnant during a tryst with a teenager several seasons ago and decided to raise the baby alone. She never mentioned the child's father in the seasons following the birth and does not appear to have any relationship with him.

Whereas “Frasier’s� audience is older, the point is there are dozens of single moms being shown everywhere…and they’re called courageous and wonderful.

All of this supports my original contentions. Is that more "reporter-like" for you?

 

[wickwoman]

Dear BB:

It was a joke. I hope you aren't frightened of me. It was not my intention to cause you bodily harm. Only to laugh at your expense.

 

[wickwoman]

I'm leaving this thread now. These rights are starting to sound more and more like the Republican party platform. :bang:

 

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by wickwoman

Dear BB:

It was a joke.

OK.

I hope you aren't frightened of me.

Nope.

It was not my intention to cause you bodily harm.

Oh, well I guess that's better because I was waiting to see if you actually thought women had the right to kick men and vice versa.

Only to laugh at your expense.

I don't mind, I've certainly had my share of laughs at your expense.

 

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by wickwoman

I'm leaving this thread now. These rights are starting to sound more and more like the Republican party platform. :bang:

Yeah, liberals hate when people have rights.