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Nowhere will you find in scripture, that the angels are made in God's image.
"Let Us Make Man In Our Image"
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
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Jerry Shugart
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Let us look at verse 26:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth" (Gen.1:26).
I see nothing here that even hints that the angels were God’s assistants in the creation. Your whole argument is based on that idea but verse 26 will be searched in vain for anything about "angels."
highlandlenna
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So, I skimmed through this thread looking to see if anyone addressed the question of plural pronouns in the Gen. 1:26 verse...maybe I skipped over it, if so, my apologies if I'm being redundant.
From what I understand, when reading this verse, is a little contradictory to the idea of "compound unity". When I see, "And God said, let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness", it leads me to believe that God is not speaking of Himself as a "compound unity" but as one of many. Therefore, there seems to be a misconception that God was the only creation before man, here we can safely assume that he was not alone. I believe God made man in an image of all beings that were present (Holy Spirit, angels, Satan, etc.). Basically I'm saying that God was not alone at the creation, and that nothing from this specific text leads me to believe that God was speaking only of Himself when He created man.
From what I understand, when reading this verse, is a little contradictory to the idea of "compound unity". When I see, "And God said, let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness", it leads me to believe that God is not speaking of Himself as a "compound unity" but as one of many. Therefore, there seems to be a misconception that God was the only creation before man, here we can safely assume that he was not alone. I believe God made man in an image of all beings that were present (Holy Spirit, angels, Satan, etc.). Basically I'm saying that God was not alone at the creation, and that nothing from this specific text leads me to believe that God was speaking only of Himself when He created man.
This issue is addressed in these three shows:
http://kgov.com/jehovahs-witnesses-secretly-recorded (parts 2 and 3 are linked to on the first one)
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highlandlenna
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Not to sound like an ***...but God had to come from somewhere...therefore He is still a creation. Creations are still capable of being creators.
The what created God? Why do we call God, well, God, and not whatever created Him? Or is it turtles all the way down?
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Greetings again Right Divider and Jerry,
I could only guess at your view, but possibly God the Father in the centre, God the Son on the right hand, and God the Holy Spirit on the left. Turning then to the right and then the left, and thus excluding the angels, God the Father invites his other two persons of the Godhead to create man.
Kind regards
Trevor
I accept your correction. To me however it is clear, taking Psalm 8:5 as “angels" then it is Yahweh, God the Father, the Creator who is inviting the angels, some of whom stand in his presence, to participate in the creation of man in image and likeness of God and the angels. As a result man was made in the image of God and the angels and hence a little lower than the angels.
Perhaps we are both basing our assessment on how we view the Throne of Heaven before our Lord Jesus Christ was exalted to sit down at God’s right hand. For me I would picture God the Father seated upon His throne, with various angels including Gabriel and Michael in His presence. If God spoke to those in His presence in the words of Genesis 1:26, then I would understand that God was inviting these angels and their attendants as they are archangel(s) to help to create man.
I could only guess at your view, but possibly God the Father in the centre, God the Son on the right hand, and God the Holy Spirit on the left. Turning then to the right and then the left, and thus excluding the angels, God the Father invites his other two persons of the Godhead to create man.
Kind regards
Trevor
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Here is my view. There is only "One" sitting on the "throne of God and of the Lamb":
"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads" (Rev.22:3-4).
There is only One sitting on the throne of God and of the Lamb and here is what the One on the throne said:
"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:5-7).
As you admit, only God can be described as being the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. And from what John said at Revelation 22:20 the following words are spoken by the Lord Jesus:
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).
Common sense dictates that since only God can be described as the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end then we can know with full assurance that the Lord Jesus is God. And the Holy Spirit is described this way:
"And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb" (Rev.22:1).
Greetings again Jerry,
Kind regards
Trevor
I was talking about Genesis 1:26. How do you understand this verse and also Psalm 8:5? By the way, Psalm 8:5 also proves that Jesus was a created being.
Kind regards
Trevor
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Right Divider
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You are extremely confused TrevorL, Psalm 8:5 does NOT say anything about angels "helping" with the creation of man.
Once again, just plain confusion on your part. God is the Creator and does NOT need anyone's help.
Where do you get so many bizarre ideas?
--RD
My guess is the planet "Sovereign Citizen" populated with wackadoodles.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course you want nothing to do with the verses from Revelation which I quoted and that is why you don't even attempt to prove anything I said there is in error. In regard to the meaning of Genesis 1:26 you can go to my OP on this thread to get my opinion.
In regard to Psalm 8:5 here is the correct translation:
"You have made them a little lower than the angels and crowned them with glory and honor" (Ps.8:5; NIV).
Just curious but who do you think is being referred to here in "bold"?
"For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones" (Isa.57:15).
Thanks!
Greetings again Right Divider and Jerry,
Kind regards
Trevor
From my perspective at the time of Genesis 1 there was only God the Father and his attendant angels in heaven. I understand Genesis 1:26 to be an invitation to others to participate in the creation of man after God’s and their image and likeness. Psalm 8:5 is a summary in other words of what occurred.
I was trying to replicate the picture that I have based on the NT application of Psalm 110:1 where is depicted God the Father sitting upon his throne, while Jesus is exalted after his resurrection to sit on God’s right hand. Now if the “us” in Genesis 1:26 is one person of the Trinity talking to the other two, I imagined that to a Trinitarian all three must have been sitting adjacent to each other on the one throne. I worked as a draftsman and not skilled with words, but try to picture things.
I do not avoid the book of Revelation, but consider that we should use foundational passages from the rest of Scripture to establish a basis for correct understanding. There is probably a diverse understanding of the Book of Revelation, even amongst those who have similar doctrines. From your OP you state that there is a plurality in the Godhead, that this is a case of compound unity, that it is a mystery. After quoting Matthew 28:19 in support you then ask why are plural pronouns used in Genesis 1:26. My responses were to give an alternative to your view.
I am not sure of the history of this emendation, but it is not the same as the ESV, or the citation in Hebrews 2. It is true that God created both Adam and Eve.
I am not sure why you ask this, but it is one of the passages that I use for renewal, for repentance and rededication. A few others are Psalm 34, 51, Isaiah 6 and the prodigal son. I think of this verse and Isaiah 66:1-2 when I consider Matthew 5:3-5. The people described are those who recognise their insufficiency before the greatness of our Eternal Father, and yet find grace, mercy and peace when they finally come in personal contact with Him through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Kind regards
Trevor
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
This is speaking about only one person:
"For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones" (Isa.57:15).
Greetings again Jerry,
Although I agree that Jesus was the humblest of all, I have always considered the verses following to be speaking of the sequence of events that brought the individual(s) of v15 to a crisis point, even to the point of death, where he(they) was broken and returned unto God. There may be an underlying theme of Jesus as the sin-bearer, but I read it firstly of those who go astray, and God through his providential care and circumstances brings them back again.
Kind regards
Trevor
Isaiah 57:15-19 (KJV): 15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones. 16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made. 17 For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart. 18 I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners. 19 I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him.
Although I agree that Jesus was the humblest of all, I have always considered the verses following to be speaking of the sequence of events that brought the individual(s) of v15 to a crisis point, even to the point of death, where he(they) was broken and returned unto God. There may be an underlying theme of Jesus as the sin-bearer, but I read it firstly of those who go astray, and God through his providential care and circumstances brings them back again.
Kind regards
Trevor
Right Divider
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TrevorL, at that time the LORD God did NOT call Himself a "father'. A Father is not a father without children.
The Father/Son relationship in the Godhead is an ANALOGY or a PICTURE of a RELATIONSHIP. It is God using HUMAN terms to describe the members of the Godhead.
God did NOT invite "others" to take part in the creation of man.
The Word of the LORD was God and with God at the beginning of human history. The Word made everything that was made. The Most High was not made, but angels were made. Angels were made by the Word.