And don't forget Exodus where Israel was saved from Egypt by grace.
Legalistic Logic
- Thread starter Nameless.In.Grace
- Start date
And don't forget Exodus where Israel was saved from Egypt by grace.
Why?
Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."
Because jamie said so
Lol!!
Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."
Ben Masada
New member
Gospel Message: Jesus died for the Sins of Humanity and He Loves you just like you are!!!!
Legalist: Jesus is Awesome!!!!!
Gospel Message: Now that your debt of Transgressions has been fully erased, you can share this message with others, for Jesus is to guide your heart now.
Legalist: Wow, he lives in my heart? How did his death forgive all of my sins?
Gospel Message: Have you ever heard of Moses?
Legalist: Who
Gospel Message: God used him to record standards of perfection.
Legalist: Wow!
Gospel Message: God is the only one that is Perfect and He gave Moses's followers a hidden prophesy of Jesus's work to come through Moses.
Legalist: That's Cool
Gospel Message: Yup. And Jesus came amongst us as Emmanuel. (God with us) And He fulfilled that Law and explained that only God could Save mankind. He took away the Debt of everyone's life debt of Sin so they could focus on Loving their fellow human being just as Jesus did.
Legalist: Yay. Baptize me so I can return this favor.
Gospel Message: Baptism symbolizes that you are now dead, and Jesus' life is in place of yours!
Legalist: Yay!
..................................................
Legalist: Did you know Jesus died for you and Loves you?
Lost Sheep: No
Legalist: Yup. You can be like God!
Lost Sheep: What?
Legalist: God used this guy Moses to teach us how to be Perfect
Lost Sheep: What?
Legalist: Want to be saved and forgiven for all your Sins?
Lost Sheep: Yay
Legalist: Now I'll teach you how to be Perfect like God
Lost Sheep: But I'm a Sinner
Legalist: Now that you accept Jesus, you are given Supernatural Power to be Perfect in your flesh like Jesus was.
Lost Sheep: Ok
.....................................................
Legalist: Isn't it cool being better than everyone?
Legalist Lost Sheep: Yup
Legalist: Now we can Judge People
Legalist Lost Sheep: Sweet
Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."
Nameless, I have two questions for you after reading this post above. Two questions this time, no more. Did you know that God Almighty inspired His prophets to teach that no one can die for the sins of another? I bet you did but, too late; the voice of Paul seems to sound louder in your years than the voice of Jehovah.
The second question is, do you think that Jesus was the only Jew to be crucified by the Romans? Josephus said in his book "Wars of the Jews" that only in the First Century, thousands of Jews were crucified in the same manner as the Romans followed a unique method used with all. So, Jesus was not the only one to look Awesome on the cross. They all looked the same.
Jesus didn't show Thomas rope burns.
Legalistic Logic
Ben read all of this and think of my stance.
The first portion speaks of atonement.
Think of Jesus as the firstborn Son of God
Think of Jesus as the BrideGroom to Humanity in the following parts
Think of Humanity as disobedient to God
The last portion explains a curse.
I see Jesus prophesied here.
Deuteronomy 21
Atonement for an Unsolved Murder
1If someone is found slain, lying in a field in the land the Lord your God is giving you to possess, and it is not known who the killer was, 2your elders and judges shall go out and measure the distance from the body to the neighboring towns. 3Then the elders of the town nearest the body shall take a heifer that has never been worked and has never worn a yoke 4and lead it down to a valley that has not been plowed or planted and where there is a flowing stream. There in the valley they are to break the heifer’s neck. 5The Levitical priests shall step forward, for the Lord your God has chosen them to minister and to pronounce blessings in the name of the Lord and to decide all cases of dispute and assault. 6Then all the elders of the town nearest the body shall wash their hands over the heifer whose neck was broken in the valley, 7and they shall declare: “Our hands did not shed this blood, nor did our eyes see it done. 8Accept this atonement for your people Israel, whom you have redeemed, Lord, and do not hold your people guilty of the blood of an innocent person.” Then the bloodshed will be atoned for, 9and you will have purged from yourselves the guilt of shedding innocent blood, since you have done what is right in the eyes of the Lord.
Marrying a Captive Woman
10When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.
The Right of the Firstborn
15If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, 16when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love. 17He must acknowledge the son of his unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double share of all he has. That son is the first sign of his father’s strength. The right of the firstborn belongs to him.
A Rebellious Son
18If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
Various Laws
22If someone guilty of a capital offense is put to death and their body is exposed on a pole, 23you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse. You must not desecrate the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.
Yes.
I have read the works of Maccabees and the works you speak of.
It is heart wrenching.
I agree.
And the actual suffering of any human being breaks my heart.
I am extremely sensitive to the persecution of Jews and Christians or any people who suffer as peaceful slaughtered lambs.
The Cross is indeed awesome to me, because I see it as a literal symbol for the crossing of the paths of humanity and God.
Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."
Ben read all of this and think of my stance.
The first portion speaks of atonement.
Think of Jesus as the firstborn Son of God
Think of Jesus as the BrideGroom to Humanity in the following parts
Think of Humanity as disobedient to God
The last portion explains a curse.
I see Jesus prophesied here.
Deuteronomy 21
Atonement for an Unsolved Murder
1If someone is found slain, lying in a field in the land the Lord your God is giving you to possess, and it is not known who the killer was, 2your elders and judges shall go out and measure the distance from the body to the neighboring towns. 3Then the elders of the town nearest the body shall take a heifer that has never been worked and has never worn a yoke 4and lead it down to a valley that has not been plowed or planted and where there is a flowing stream. There in the valley they are to break the heifer’s neck. 5The Levitical priests shall step forward, for the Lord your God has chosen them to minister and to pronounce blessings in the name of the Lord and to decide all cases of dispute and assault. 6Then all the elders of the town nearest the body shall wash their hands over the heifer whose neck was broken in the valley, 7and they shall declare: “Our hands did not shed this blood, nor did our eyes see it done. 8Accept this atonement for your people Israel, whom you have redeemed, Lord, and do not hold your people guilty of the blood of an innocent person.” Then the bloodshed will be atoned for, 9and you will have purged from yourselves the guilt of shedding innocent blood, since you have done what is right in the eyes of the Lord.
Marrying a Captive Woman
10When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.
The Right of the Firstborn
15If a man has two wives, and he loves one but not the other, and both bear him sons but the firstborn is the son of the wife he does not love, 16when he wills his property to his sons, he must not give the rights of the firstborn to the son of the wife he loves in preference to his actual firstborn, the son of the wife he does not love. 17He must acknowledge the son of his unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double share of all he has. That son is the first sign of his father’s strength. The right of the firstborn belongs to him.
A Rebellious Son
18If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
Various Laws
22If someone guilty of a capital offense is put to death and their body is exposed on a pole, 23you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse. You must not desecrate the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.
Yes.
I have read the works of Maccabees and the works you speak of.
It is heart wrenching.
I agree.
And the actual suffering of any human being breaks my heart.
I am extremely sensitive to the persecution of Jews and Christians or any people who suffer as peaceful slaughtered lambs.
The Cross is indeed awesome to me, because I see it as a literal symbol for the crossing of the paths of humanity and God.
Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."
Legalistic Logic
True.
It is art.
I like the picture because it shows lightening.
This reminds me of the power of the Cross.
I do not intend to deceive.
I just thought it was a powerful depiction.
Do you forgive my use of artistic interpretation.
Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."
True.
It is art.
I like the picture because it shows lightening.
This reminds me of the power of the Cross.
I do not intend to deceive.
I just thought it was a powerful depiction.
Do you forgive my use of artistic interpretation.
Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."
A false picture is worth a thousand false words.
Jesus was pierced before he died.
But Jesus was not the Father's firstborn son according to scripture.
Ben Masada
New member
Ben Masada
New member
No, Nameless, there is no such a thing as an unconditional love. The love of any one including that of God is conditional to the obedience of His Laws. It is all over the Word of God aka the Tanach. Only those who live in the realm of illusion believe in unconditional love. I hope you won't take me as blaspheming but only sharing with you a Truth whereas a little hard to chew but truth all the same.
Ben Masada
New member
Water may be used to take the dirty off our hands but sins take a little more than just water. If we ask Prophet Isaiah, how much it takes to cleanse ourselves before God so that our sins, from scarlet red become as white as snow, we must repent and return to the obedience of God's Laws. (Isaiah 1:18,19)
Ben,
Again. On this sight, I remain gender anonymous for the sake of the Good News.
For the sake of your friendship, I will never lock theological horns with you.
I deeply understand your words, respect them, and find comfort in your peaceful expression of your convictions.
You challenge me every time you ask me to consider scripture to back what I am convicted of.
In this light, I find our friendship and religious discussions important.
Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."
Jamie,
I understand.
But I mean that He was God with us, and in that, the Union of The Spirit and Humanity.
This is the light I use the term First Born Son.
Fair?
Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."
Ben,
You Love HaShem with all of your heart.
I appreciate your words.
Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."
I'm pretty sure I referenced baptism in the dialogue.
Could you please check my initial post?
Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."
In this, I appreciate that you have brought the true theological light to the front. This way people can appreciate the cool picture, but your correction has brought clearer theological light on the ropes.
Thank you
Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."
I still like the picture, but agree that the ropes were most likely not there.
The sacrifice is the important part, right?
But gratitude for helping people discern more about the exacts of how Jesus died.
Signature: "If I've offended you, that's me getting in the way of Jesus. If you search the Scriptures open to only the guidance of God's Spirit to Theologically level me..... I've succeeded."