ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
so if i'm not involved in pedophilia, i shouldn't be concerned with child molesters?
Legal Sanity and LGBT/Bathroom Laws
- Thread starter nikolai_42
- Start date
so if i'm not involved in pedophilia, i shouldn't be concerned with child molesters?
shagster01
New member
Why do you care that most people want a reasonable amount of privacy from the other sex when doing something that involves taking their clothes off (ie locker room)? Who are you to judge their need for privacy? Why must those of us who identify as private or shy people be discriminated against?
Legal Sanity and LGBT/Bathroom Laws
This is a "non-issue" manufactured to divert attention away from the real issues during an election year.
Neither myself nor anyone that I know have ever encountered a situation where somebody in a public washroom was suspected of being from the other sex.
If a transgender is wearing the clothing of the opposite sex, how would anyone determine that they don't possess the appropriate private parts associated with that washroom.
Short of mandating strip-searches for everyone entering a public washroom, how can a state like North Carolina enforce its own legislation.
This is a "non-issue" manufactured to divert attention away from the real issues during an election year.
Neither myself nor anyone that I know have ever encountered a situation where somebody in a public washroom was suspected of being from the other sex.
If a transgender is wearing the clothing of the opposite sex, how would anyone determine that they don't possess the appropriate private parts associated with that washroom.
Short of mandating strip-searches for everyone entering a public washroom, how can a state like North Carolina enforce its own legislation.
PureX
Well-known member
The desire for privacy in a changing or shower room is not the same issue as transgender restroom use. I agree that special measures will have to be taken if transgender folks are going to be using group showers and changing rooms. In most instances, it will involve installing screening walls to create private shower and changing areas for the transgender people. It's a simple enough solution.
shagster01
New member
To me, those privacy measures need to be in place BEFORE Obama demands that schools and such allow transgender folks in. It seems that he (and others) are in such a rush that they are skipping to the end here.
shagster01
New member
I told of a story earlier (or in another thread, I can't remember) of a woman using this new law at a baseball game I was at to use the men's room because, as she stated to her friend outside the restroom, the line was shorter.
PureX
Well-known member
Well, the schools are not going to install the screens until they are made to do so. And that's what the mandate will accomplish.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
And that's where the dialectic is straining society to the breaking point. You can't have it both ways. Is this about choice (self-identification is ALL about that) or about what one is actually and without regard to their choices? At least when the argument went "I didn't choose to be this way" there was some sort of objective basis on which to determine fundamental things. Now, that fundamental basis of an objective right and wrong is being torn out from under our feet (as a people). You can't have it both ways - either it is all about my right to choose (in which case there is no basis for right or wrong) or it is about the way I was made (where we at least have a starting point for objective truth).
PureX
Well-known member
You're looking for problems where none exist.
George Bush didn't like broccoli. Was he born not liking broccoli or did he choose not to like it?
Who cares? He doesn't like broccoli, he doesn't want to eat it, so he's not going to. So be it. Why is it anyone else's business whether he likes broccoli or asparagus? The answer is that it isn't anyone else's business. But for some reason, huge numbers of Americans seem to think everything everyone else thinks, does, say, likes, or does't like is somehow their business. And not only is everyone else'd business their business, but they also seem to imagine that they are the judge of everyone else's business, too. That they should be deciding what other people should like and not like, and think and not think, and do and not do, and say and not say.
No one knows what sex anyone else is in a public restroom because none of us should be seeing anyone else naked. So why does anyone care? You go in, you do your business, and you leave. There's no need to even consider anyone else's genitals. But for some odd reason a lot of silly, self-righteous Americans can't leave it at that. They just have to judge and condemn and ostracize people they don't even know based on silly arguments about what's in their pants or under their dresses, and what's in their heads about it.
People are complex. We are not just biological entities. We are also psychological entities. So our sex is not determined just by our genitals, it's also determined by our psychology. And some of that is genetic, some is circumstantial, and some is choice. And this mixture varies from person to person. DEAL WITH IT! Most of it's none of yours or my business, anyway. Who cares what they think they are? Who cares what they have in their pants?
By the way, that video is dishonest and misleading because it's treating personal identity as though it were the equivalent to an objective fact. And it's not.
PureX
Well-known member
I think what's most disappointing about this whole debate is that so many Americans are now automatically assuming that what other people think and feel about themselves is up for the judgment and condemnation of everyone else.
What restroom someone chooses to use based on their personal gender identity isn't a choice that's open for everyone else to judge, approve, or condemn. It simply isn't any of our business, and it never was.
What restroom someone chooses to use based on their personal gender identity isn't a choice that's open for everyone else to judge, approve, or condemn. It simply isn't any of our business, and it never was.
Choice. Or at least it used to be that way.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Treating your last point first, the video makes no pretensions about treating the whole personal identity. The holistic man doesn't matter when it comes to bathrooms and showers - which are ALL about private activities and exposure that is done in public. It is an entirely biological issue. You yourself said "none of us should be seeing anyone else naked". Aside from the fact that this is all but impossible in a public shower (certainly a locker room shower) and not out of the realm of possibility in a dressing room and/or restroom - there are only two ways to go. And your statement above (if you are being consistent) mandates that you recognize the biological imperative (which rejection is part of the legal insanity - utterly rejecting it in favor of feelings). Biology DOES matter. Otherwise, why not say anyone has the right to watch pornography at work regardless of what their coworkers or bosses say? After all, it is entirely biological...
This isn't about broccoli...this is about biology and clearly, objectively definable boundaries. The rejection of those clear boundaries is why we are in the mess we are in. And the only legal justification for permitting (indeed, enforcing) that rejection is the feelings of those who have rejected plain objective truth. The scriptures say that the Ninevites didn't know their right hand from their left because their spiritual darkness was so advanced (Jonah 4:11). What the video displays is how close we are to seeing that literally fulfilled today. If you feel like that is your left hand, then...well, it must be.
PureX
Well-known member
Of course it does.It pretends that the concept of identity is the same as an objective fact, like height, or age. It's being deliberately dishonest in this way to make the interviewees look confused, and foolish. Very low-brow, but typical for "moralists".
Privacy has nothing to do with gender or genitals. This is not a privacy issue, it's a gender issue. No one is arguing that public showers and toilets shouldn't be "private".
No, it's not. And your repeating this isn't going to change that. Biologically speaking, we can all use the same bathroom, showers, and locker rooms. Biology has nothing to do with any of this.
Yes, because we all prefer privacy in a shower, on a toilet, and in dressing rooms.
Yep, it's time to change the way we design public showers and dressing rooms, to accommodate our new desire for privacy, and our multiple differences regarding gender. This isn't that difficult, as it just requires some extra screening.
You were trying to make it about preferences, and you were complaining that some people say it's genetic while others say is choice. I was merely pointing out that it's all of these, and more, and that ultimately, it doesn't matter. Because we like what we like and we don't what we don't. And none of this is anyone else's business.
No, it's not. It's about gender identification and sexual preference. If it were only about biology, none of this would be an issue, because no one knows what genitals are in anyone else's pants in a public restroom. Yet this is where the whole issue began. And it's not because of anyone's genitals. It's because of gender-based fear and bias.
Obviously, there the boundaries aren't so clear, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.
We don't need legal clarifications about our personal identity. We only need to protect every citizen's right to identify themselves as they choose. Legally, public toilets need to be provided for everyone, where groups of people are expected to gather. And everyone must be given access to them. They must afford reasonable privacy, but they don't have to be divided by sex, gender, or any other designation. That's optional.
This is not a religious issue. The scriptures have nothing to do with it.
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theophilus
Well-known member
If one is at a nudist colony the implication is that you are at or above the age of consent.
If you are in a public school it's a way for the system to de-moralize you and steal your innocence.
Public schools should NOT have group showers, either.
theophilus
Well-known member
PureX
Well-known member
Since the right to privacy and choice have been forfeited by those in prison, it's not an issue.
PureX
Well-known member
Well, it's a bit of a conundrum for schools. There are some good reasons why showers should not be private individual stalls, since we would probably want a responsible adult to watch over them. On the other hand, if there will be transgender kids mixed in, they will need to shower apart from the others. So some sort of screened off area should be available for them to shower and dress. In most instances these would not be difficult or expensive to install.
By the way, children are welcomed in nudist resorts so long as they are accompanied by their parents. Nudism is not considered a sexual activity.