Flipper
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Luckily, most people don't care what Exodus says.
Killer Whale
- Thread starter serpentdove
- Start date
Luckily, most people don't care what Exodus says.
Luckily, I don't care what you say. You proved yourself to be a God hater years ago when I met you at the debate on the Auraria campus and I see you haven't changed. I'm still holding out hope that you will repent of your unbelief and turn to the living God.
Doug Wright
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does that mean you can have sex shows with the 'whale' while he might eat another person..?
c'mon man-'no law'? right? then whose do we obey?
CabinetMaker, there's a difference between living under the law for salvation purposes and living under the law for civil purposes.
Just because I am in Christ does not mean that we should repeal "Thou Shalt Not Murder". God's criminal justice code was never done away with. It doesn't save people, but it does point them to the Savior.
Doug Wright
New member
with the clarification that it might have saved this diver.
Real Sorceror
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Well they do weigh several tons, so if it wants to wrassle then you're pretty much dead.
Memento Mori
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Not to mention, most Killer Whales have a basic understanding of binary and Taekwondo.
Since I don't know you, I'm not sure if that's sarcasm or not, but I was referring to spiritual salvation, not physical.
BabyChristian
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I don't care. You may be a pastor but I don't see it your way. It is a dangerous animal and unpredictable and that is exactly why it's such an attraction to people to watch humans interact with a killer.
Money often makes people not use any common sense at all.
The owners are Anheuser-Busch I have read. I don't know exactly how many stock-holders should be put to death according to your theory. It's not like they didn't know about what whales can do.
Maybe the people that paid the money to watch the event should be put to death since they kept it in business. :sigh:
And you keep calling it a dolphin in chat. If a dolphin and a whale can mate, I suppose they're the same "kind" according to the bible but I don't know if they can mate so I don't know and I don't care what you want to call it, it doesn't matter.
God never requires the death of someone without warning first. So, only those who were aware of the dolphin's prior killings and did nothing would be put to death.
BabyChristian
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Who should be stoned to death in Spain when the bull wins?
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Doug Wright
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yeah, I know, but is the physical nothing? I love it when God's Law is made to be onerous-even when it saves lives as compared to man's 'law'.:bang:
No, the physical is not nothing, but it is little in comparison to the spirit. Yet, God's criminal code certainly does affect the physical in a very direct way, doesn't it?
Orcas kill fish. They also kill sea mammals. And no killing a human isn't natural behaviour. We shouldn't naturally be in their habitat though. And they wouldn't naturally be under the kind of stress that Orca's been going through.
An Orca is not a dog and the two are not comparable. Dogs have been domesticated over a period of thousands of years. We pulled Orcas out of the ocean ten or twenty years ago. Places like Seaworld make millions of dollars from exhibiting these animals. The least they could do is come up with a humane solution when things go awry. And yeah.. I think killing this animal is more humane than continuing to exhibit it in the way it has been.
I wouldn't expect standard Orca behaviour from a massive, intelligent and social mammal that's been kept in a small cage in isolation for over a decade though.
From what I've read, she might have slipped in but I could have read the wrong things.
What research has come out of their being held at Seaworld?
I'm all for animals being displayed for the purposes of raising awareness and educating people as well but I have my doubts when it comes to big ticket items who bring in a lot of money for any given park. They have seals who "perform" at Melbourne zoo but throughout it's explained that they're not really doing tricks but running through their daily training for vet inspections. These "tricks" have a purpose.
Saying that the ability to balance a person on their snout is necessary to study communication and how they think is something like saying that the Japanese research of our whales is more than culinary in nature.
They do fund their park. Does that make it worth it?
That they are intelligent animals carries with it a greater burden to ensure that their needs are met.
Releasing the orca would only have served to kill it without the awkwardness of having to watch it die. That Seaworld actually bought it from another after it had already killed one trainer. Clearly the dollar signs were just too great to ignore with this one.
Dogs and pigs have been domesticated for thousands of years. That cannot be duplicated in one or two generations with a marine mammal that we're taking out of its environment and holding in completely unnatural circumstances to make a buck - even if that buck is wisely spent.
A few decades ago, it was seen as reasonable to hold wild animals in tiny concrete floored enclosures so that people could walk past and gawk at the crazy lion or chimp behind bars. I would have expected any and all of those animals kept in conditions that were so far removed from anything remotely natural to them to have displayed completely unnatural behaviours were they given half a chance. Had a lion ripped its trainer limb from limb after being broken like that, it wouldn't be a case of "one bad animal" but a symptom of how it had been housed and cared for.
I wouldn't say that any animal at the zoo has been domesticated. They've been trained to engage in certain behaviours and to interact with humans in certain ways but they are not domestic animals.
I'd say that the way we house and treat Orcas needs to be reexamined, just as we're reexamined how we house and care for other animals over the last few decades. No longer do we lock elephants in tiny concrete cages to go mad by themselves but allow them to have space to move and at least a small family group with which to socialise with. I would think that the first step for responsibly holding Orcas would be to recognise their intelligence and their social natures and rather than locking them in tiny pools in isolation (as this one was) to come up with a solution where people could still be exposed to them but in an environment that more humanely mirrors their wild environs.
I agree. The animal did exactly what he was programmed to do. It's sad, and yeah, after the first two times one would hope the handlers would see a pattern forming. It's the same as I feel for a lion tamer who gets wrecked, or a snake charmer bitten, or like that idiot who got ate by his grizzly bear buddies. Sad to some extent, but not real shocking. The handlers should be well aware of what these great fish are capable of, and the hobo guy was just bolstering Darwin's idea. (I think he sneaked in and got in the fishes tank? That's too dumb)
It's not like a farm animal attacked an innocent bystander, and I know... it's just fun to call them "fish".
I can't disagree with that, sadly. Oh yeah, you are a flaming moron.
If people cared what Exodus said, parents would love their children more, there would be fewer murders, stealing, and adultery.
Not much sense in that post. Did you read where it mentions accidental, repeat accidents, and intentional? The answer should be obvious.
Imagine sitting on the beach and taking that video. :noway:
Liberals make decision based on feelings. Christians make decisions based on God's word. The animal should be put to death (Ex 21:28-29).
Real Sorceror
New member
And I feel that is a very bad way to make decisions. What happens if something comes up that isn't in scripture?
You still haven't said how you actually feel about the situation.
BabyChristian
New member
I personally believe that using animals in an abusive way is sinful. No, horseback riding is not wrong and using animals to plow the fields is not sinful because it's a necessity but participating in dog fights, chicken fights, bullfights are an unnecessary luxury because humans are often so sick in the mind. Abusing animals is sinful. Seems to be more often a testosterone issue somehow.
If a dangerous animal has been tamed, such as the whale, but occasionally can revert back to its instinctual nature, who is to blame for putting that animal in that situation? Surely not the animal. That whale should have been released into the ocean the first time they thought the whale possibly killed a human. If the animal didn't know how to survive in the ocean, then the time should have been taken to teach it, after all many $$$s were made off of that animal.
We have dominion over animals and humans abuse dominion because humans are sinful in nature.
WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT ANIMAL ABUSE?
Does God hear the cries of those who do not communicate in human language? Does His heart respond to the fearful mewing of a motherless kitten or the exhaustion of a donkey staggering under a load far too heavy for it? Does He care about the animals that are bred in cramped quarters and exploited for profit? Does He care about animals who are made to fight to the death, as men watch and gamble on which one will win? Does God approve of men who race dogs until they drop dead of exhaustion? What about spearing a bull to death after it performs before a blood thirsty crowd? Did He create animals to be used in such a way?
We know from scripture that God was so interested in the welfare of the animal kingdom that He created, that He even commanded Noah, in the time of judgement on the earth, to make the ark big enough to hold two of every kind of animal that existed.
The Bible actually has much to say in regard to animal abuse. In the beginning, God created the earth and all the creatures on it to be under the authority of humanity. He entrusted these beautiful elements of His creation to our care (Genesis 1:26). Our sinful nature causes us to abuse the animal kingdom, sometimes without even realizing it. Yet, God expects the Christian, above all others, to be sensitive to all of His creation, knowing that exploiting or abusing it shows a disrespect for God Himself. Abuse of anything that God made is not the character of God, but rather of the Evil One.
Domestic Animals: "A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel" (Proverbs 12:10). Throughout the Bible, God shows how He expects us to care for our animals in practical ways. In the Law of the Israelites, for example, one of the purposes of the Sabbath year of rest for the land, was to let the land lie fallow--and so that the poor as well as livestock and wild animals could eat from it (Exodus 23:11 and Leviticus 25:7). The Sabbath day itself was not only for humans to rest. God also commanded us to give our animals rest on the same day. (Exodus 20:10). He also commanded the Israelites to help both their friends and enemies when their ox or donkey had fallen over, or was carrying a burden too heavy for it to bear (Exodus 23:5 and Deuteronomy 22:4). In addition, livestock were also allowed to eat as they worked (Deuteronomy 25:4). Finally, God says to us in Proverbs 27:23: "Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds."
Part of the reason that God anointed young David to be king over Israel, was that he was a good shepherd and could be trusted with the sheep under his care, even risking his life for them when they were attacked by lions or bears (1 Samuel 17:34). God knew that if David had this sort of heart for his sheep, he would be a faithful shepherd over an even greater treasure--the people of Israel.
Wild Animals--His eye is on the sparrow: In addition to domesticated animals, God also watches over wild animals and commands us to do the same. In Deuteronomy 22:6-7, God promises a long life to those who will watch over wild birds. If we rape the land or the creatures in it, what will sustain us in the future? He allows for the taking of eggs, but commands that we release the mother bird to continue living in the wild and reproducing as He intended. In Job 38:41, God says that He hears the cries of newborn ravens crying to Him for food. Jesus went on to say that God supplies food for the wild birds and that not one of them falls to the ground without Him knowing it.
Matthew 6:26: "Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?"
These small, but kind and practical commands written throughout the Bible give us good insight into how God expects us to treat animals. Surely we will have to answer to Him for any abuse that we have committed against them. God created animals for us to love and to learn from. In them, we see our own dependance upon God illustrated in their dependance upon us. We can also see elements of our foolishness manifested in them (who has not seen a crowing rooster and laughed at the comic caricature of ourselves crowing to all the world in our foolish pride at times?) In addition, God also tells us to learn from their wisdom:
"Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest" (Proverbs 6:6-8).
(Job 12:7-10 KJV) "But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this? In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind."
Although worship of animals as deities is strictly forbidden in Scripture, we are to respect them as a part of God's creation. Some believe that because only humans were created in God's image, they alone are worthy of respect and care. Yet, the Bible tells us that even the angels were not created in God's image, yet we are to respect them! We are to respect all of God's created order, not to worship facets of it, but to see in it the same call that we ourselves have, which is to glorify God. All of God's creation was made with the ability and the power to glorify Him, each in different ways. In this, animals, as well as humans, share a common element with the rest of creation. Perhaps the words from these Psalms say it best of all (emphasis added):
His splendor is above the earth and the heavens (Psalm 148: 1-13).
Some people don't abuse animals, but go to the opposite extreme and place animals above human life. This was not God's intention either, but rather that He wanted to bless mankind with a wonderful world of creatures that we could enjoy and with that enjoyment, He also holds us responsible, as to how we treat and care for them. May we all take that responsibility seriously, as we shall be judged for the way we treat animals and all of God's creation.
http://bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=212
