Justified by Faith Means Justified by Christ

[clefty]

For the Christian the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15 also Colossians 2:14.

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of the spirit and not in the oldness of the letter" (law) Romans 7:6.

You cannot accept this biblical truth. We are Abraham's seed by faith in Christ.

Yes Abraham’s seed by Law of adoption...but you insist no law after the cross

Now it is true even Abraham had faith FIRST...but then was he obedient or disobedient?

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes Abraham’s seed by Law of adoption...but you insist no law after the cross

Now it is true even Abraham had faith FIRST...but then was he obedient or disobedient?

The Christian is obedient not because he has to (law). The Christian is obedient because he wants to (Spirit). This is the difference between living by laws and rules and living by the Spirit.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Don't try to separate Christ from God. They are one of the same.

God was "In Christ". Example: "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Robert,

Try considering another view of your favorite "go to" verse:

"The question is, When Paul says all things — that all things will be reconciled to God through Christ — does all things mean every unbeliever who has ever lived, including Satan? My answer is no."

Full discussion:
https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/how-will-christ-reconcile-unbelievers-to-himself

AMR

 

[glorydaz]

Yes Abraham’s seed by Law of adoption...but you insist no law after the cross

Now it is true even Abraham had faith FIRST...but then was he obedient or disobedient?

The Jews were required to have faith and works....not so with the body of Christ under Grace.

 

[clefty]

The Christian is obedient not because he has to (law). The Christian is obedient because he wants to (Spirit). This is the difference between living by laws and rules and living by the Spirit.

BINGO...yes the Christian WANTS TO keep the Law...because he loves His Saviour for saving Him and now wants to please Him by following Him His Way...and no NOT the traditions of man and his various religions...but Him His Way...His ETERNAL Law...which the Spirit leads and empowers believers to do...

But you continually insist there is more NO LAW...so what is the Christian obedient to? According to what does the Spirit guide?

Which laws does the Christian WANT to keep? Most I have met say all 10 of them UNTIL I bring up the seventh day Sabbath and then it’s “awww hell no!!!...the Law is abolished...we are now under grace”

And saying so they continue a jewish fable that lying false-witnessing slandering jews accused Stephen and Paul of teaching...

So what laws does the Christian WANT TO KEEP

which are written on his heart and mindy which laws does the Spirit guide use into keeping?

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert,

Try considering another view of your favorite "go to" verse:

"The question is, When Paul says all things — that all things will be reconciled to God through Christ — does all things mean every unbeliever who has ever lived, including Satan? My answer is no."

Full discussion:
https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/how-will-christ-reconcile-unbelievers-to-himself

AMR

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil and now sits at the right hand of God as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. There is nothing wrong with the Bible, but there is a lot wrong with what you believe about it.

 

[Robert Pate]

BINGO...yes the Christian WANTS TO keep the Law...because he loves His Saviour for saving Him and now wants to please Him by following Him His Way...and no NOT the traditions of man and his various religions...but Him His Way...His ETERNAL Law...which the Spirit leads and empowers believers to do...

But you continually insist there is more NO LAW...so what is the Christian obedient to? According to what does the Spirit guide?

Which laws does the Christian WANT to keep? Most I have met say all 10 of them UNTIL I bring up the seventh day Sabbath and then it’s “awww hell no!!!...the Law is abolished...we are now under grace”

And saying so they continue a jewish fable that lying false-witnessing slandering jews accused Stephen and Paul of teaching...

So what laws does the Christian WANT TO KEEP

which are written on his heart and mindy which laws does the Spirit guide use into keeping?

I am getting tired of saying this.

"Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation".

This is why the law has been abolished for the Christian, Romans 8:1.

Paul says to you, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, DO YOU NOT HEAR THE LAW? Galatians 4:21.

The law will damn you to hell.

 

[clefty]

The Jews were required to have faith and works....not so with the body of Christ under Grace.

Faith without works is what?

Pity your rebellious heart has such a negative and hostile view of His Law...

jews however delighted to keep His Law...ok maybe not all of them all the time...but they certainly WANTED to as it was their very identity...they wished to keep the laws to please their god and separate themselves from everyone else...duh

Not keeping them meant you were no longer under the promise and protection...had to leave the camp even

Many did disobey maybe even left the camp...but yeah most of Israel WANTED to keep the law until they didn’t and then they were rejected and destroyed...jews however held out the longest even rebuilding the temple and by the time Yahushua came around they proved they could keep the law they loved so much even add to it...He of course reminded them it was about the uncircumcised heart and for everyone not just them...all of it is a shadow pointing to Him...about MERCY rather than sacrifice and yes again FOR EVERYBODY to worship the same way...

That of course angered the Jews as they loved the law sooo much they wanted to keep it for themselves alone and lied and deceived to do so with false witness that Stephen and Paul were teaching their beloved customs/law were done with...OF COURSE THAT WAS FALSE WITNESS because neither Stephen nor Paul taught that but merely One resurrected for ALL to come worship Him and according to His Way...



Yup...sadly so many like you claim to love Him and yet do not follow Him His Way or wish to do His Father’s will...

As it remains “Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua...”

But like you the world teaches love is all you need and do what thou whilst...

Choose ye this day Whom ye will SERVE...your works will reveal Whom you serve

 

[clefty]

The Jews were required to have faith and works....not so with the body of Christ under Grace.

So Christians are allowed to NOT keep the Law?

Christians are allowed to murder steal lie?

That does explain a lot...seems like they are...

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned Jesus has defeated sin, death and the devil and now sits at the right hand of God as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. There is nothing wrong with the Bible, but there is a lot wrong with what you believe about it.

I suppose I will rest comfortably in knowledge that there are not a few who believe the same as do I, Robert.

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

I suppose I will rest comfortably in knowledge that there are not a few who believe the same as do I, Robert.

AMR

We have a Bible and the Bible teaches that God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

In Jesus Christ we and the whole world have been reconciled to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17. You don't believe any of this because you have embraced a false religion and have become a reprobate.

 

[clefty]

I am getting tired of saying this.

feel free not to say it...you abused it enough

"Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation".

your claim is the cross abolished the law...you are then born lawless...so...how do you know you need salvation?...since the law is abolished 2000+ year ago?

This is why the law has been abolished for the Christian, Romans 8:1.

ummm you do know that if you are in Christ that means you are keeping His commandments...obeying Him...right? Not like your former self nor like the world? It does NOT mean the law was abolished for you Christian feel free to murder, steal, lie...

Paul says to you, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, DO YOU NOT HEAR THE LAW? Galatians 4:21.

Hearing the Law means it still exists...in this case it regarded we are BY LAW children of the free woman...by PROMISE...that is the Law...but NOT for you as you insist the law was abolished...

The law will damn you to hell.

damns all of us...is why we need a Savior...but thanks for admitting the law still exists and was not abolished at the cross...

 

[Robert Pate]

feel free not to say it...you abused it enough

your claim is the cross abolished the law...you are then born lawless...so...how do you know you need salvation?...since the law is abolished 2000+ year ago?

ummm you do know that if you are in Christ that means you are keeping His commandments...obeying Him...right? Not like your former self nor like the world? It does NOT mean the law was abolished for you Christian feel free to murder, steal, lie...

Hearing the Law means it still exists...in this case it regarded we are BY LAW children of the free woman...by PROMISE...that is the Law...but NOT for you as you insist the law was abolished...

damns all of us...is why we need a Savior...but thanks for admitting the law still exists and was not abolished at the cross...

The law has been abolished for the Christian, Ephesians 2:15. But for you and other unbelievers you are under the law and will be judged by it and condemned, Galatians 3:10.

 

[glorydaz]

Faith without works is what?

Salvation by Grace.

Try reading a broader range of Scripture....the part that was meant for you.

Romans 4:4-5 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

Pity your rebellious heart has such a negative and hostile view of His Law...

Save your pity for yourself, son. You are in way over your head.

jews however delighted to keep His Law...ok maybe not all of them all the time...but they certainly WANTED to as it was their very identity...they wished to keep the laws to please their god and separate themselves from everyone else...duh

As Paul tells us, they had great zeal but not according to knowledge. Much like you.

Romans 10:Romans 10:1-3 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
​

Spoiler

Not keeping them meant you were no longer under the promise and protection...had to leave the camp even

Many did disobey maybe even left the camp...but yeah most of Israel WANTED to keep the law until they didn’t and then they were rejected and destroyed...jews however held out the longest even rebuilding the temple and by the time Yahushua came around they proved they could keep the law they loved so much even add to it...He of course reminded them it was about the uncircumcised heart and for everyone not just them...all of it is a shadow pointing to Him...about MERCY rather than sacrifice and yes again FOR EVERYBODY to worship the same way...

That of course angered the Jews as they loved the law sooo much they wanted to keep it for themselves alone and lied and deceived to do so with false witness that Stephen and Paul were teaching their beloved customs/law were done with...OF COURSE THAT WAS FALSE WITNESS because neither Stephen nor Paul taught that but merely One resurrected for ALL to come worship Him and according to His Way...

And that is one of the effects that comes with the law...it leads to more sin and spiritual pride..."But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence".

Romans 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Yup...sadly so many like you claim to love Him and yet do not follow Him His Way or wish to do His Father’s will...

Are you saying you do not believe that Jesus is God? Are you further proving you have no idea of what it means to walk by faith? That's sure what it looks like to me.

As it remains “Here are they that keep the commandments of Yah and the faith OF Yahushua...”

But like you the world teaches love is all you need and do what thou whilst...

Choose ye this day Whom ye will SERVE...your works will reveal Whom you serve

You're stuck on the wrong side of the cross. Law and Grace do not mix, and if you try and get saved through law keeping, you will fail. Salvation is by grace through faith. Plain and simple.

 

[clefty]

The law has been abolished for the Christian, Ephesians 2:15.

the irony that the law of ordinances mentioned here is the man made law preventing gentiles like you from keeping the Law...now that divisive law was abolished by Him so that one man was made from jew and gentile...one obedient law keeping man...

But for you and other unbelievers you are under the law and will be judged by it and condemned, Galatians 3:10.

all have sinned...

Maybe John’s first letter would help “For this is the love of Yah that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.”

Your god of lawlessness is an idol John ends this letter that you should keep yourself away from idols...

 

[glorydaz]

So Christians are allowed to NOT keep the Law?

Believers who try to follow the law have fallen from grace. Christ becomes of no effect to them.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.​

We walk by faith, and are led by the Holy Spirit.

Christians are allowed to murder steal lie?

Why do you ask? Would you murder and steal if there wasn't a law forbidding it? :think:

That does explain a lot...seems like they are...

Your imagination is running away with you. Those who have been created IN CHRIST JESUS are new creatures...all things are new.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​

 

[steko]

Salvation by Grace.

Try reading a broader range of Scripture....the part that was meant for you.

Romans 4:4-5 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

Save your pity for yourself, son. You are in way over your head.



As Paul tells us, they had great zeal but not according to knowledge. Much like you.

Romans 10:Romans 10:1-3 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
​

And that is one of the effects that comes with the law...it leads to more sin and spiritual pride..."But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence".

Romans 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.




Are you saying you do not believe that Jesus is God? Are you further proving you have no idea of what it means to walk by faith? That's sure what it looks like to me.



You're stuck on the wrong side of the cross. Law and Grace do not mix, and if you try and get saved through law keeping, you will fail. Salvation is by grace through faith. Plain and simple.

:thumb:

 

[clefty]

Salvation by Grace.

yup...and then what? Once saved can you go and steal murder Lie? No laws need apply...it’s all grace baby...

Just cry LORD! LORD!...forget about doing His Father’s will...

Try reading a broader range of Scripture....the part that was meant for you.

Romans 4:4-5 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.​

Yes faith is accounted as righteousness...and now what?...how do you live? You get to kill steal lie?

Save your pity for yourself, son. You are in way over your head.

you shoveling it out pretty thick and heavy it is true...but in over my head was when I was baptized...now saved my faith compels works...

how about you...it’s all same as always? not transformed? NOT more like Him His ways...or just like the world?

As Paul tells us, they had great zeal but not according to knowledge. Much like you.

Romans 10:Romans 10:1-3 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
​

right the righteousness of Yah...allows you to steal murder and lie does it? You and yours really seem to want to...

And that is one of the effects that comes with the law...it leads to more sin and spiritual pride..."But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence".

Romans 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

imagine that...the law doing what it was supposed to do... point out sin and need for salvation and the One Who can do that for you...

So again...once saved that law is abolished yes? You can now go steal murder lie?

“Think NOT!” He said but you go ahead ignore that...pretend fulfilling your obligations as a citizen abolishes the laws of the very country you reside in...

Or that you can start stealing murdering and lying because SOMEONE ELSE fulfilled their obligations to be a good citizen...perfectly

Are you saying you do not believe that Jesus is God? Are you further proving you have no idea of what it means to walk by faith? That's sure what it looks like to me.

good...stick to twisting and torturing my posts...please leave Paul alone...

So this walk of faith allows you to steal murder lie?

You're stuck on the wrong side of the cross. Law and Grace do not mix,

one results in the other...

and if you try and get saved through law keeping, you will fail.

seriously HOW BIG DOES ONE HAVE TO WRITE THE WORDS? Never did I say we keep the law TO BE SAVED...but being saved we now WANT TO keep the law...if you love HIM...

Salvation is by grace through faith. Plain and simple.

right...is why israel was saved from Egypt BEFORE it even received the Law...

By Faith Abraham Noah and the rest of Heb 11...were saved...AND THEN OBEYED

So again since you are saved by your faith by what He did...are you now allowed to steal murder and lie?

 

[clefty]

Believers who try to follow the law have fallen from grace. Christ becomes of no effect to them.

so you dont even try? No works?

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.​

does not apply...not talking about works to earn salvation

We walk by faith, and are led by the Holy Spirit.

well that is a relief...does He lead you to keep the law or to break it? To be more like Him or less and more like the world?

Why do you ask? Would you murder and steal if there wasn't a law forbidding it? :think:

even Buddhists or muslims dont murder or steal...are they saved now? So are christians allowed to or not?

Your imagination is running away with you. Those who have been created IN CHRIST JESUS are new creatures...all things are new.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​

So does this new creature keep the commandments of Yah and the faith of Yahushua?

In Him is NOT keeping the Law? Or keeping it? Or keeping different ones? New ones?

 

[glorydaz]

yup...and then what? Once saved can you go and steal murder Lie?

Haven't yet, and I've been saved a long long time.

Yes faith is accounted as righteousness...and now what...how do you live? You get to kill steal lie?

I live by the faith of the Son of God. How do you live?

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.​

you shoveling it out pretty thick and heavy its true...but in over my head was when I was baptized and now saved my faith compels works...how about you...all same as always not transformed NOT more like Him His ways...or just like the world

My faith compels rest and trust in the Lord....who performs His work in me.

Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:​

right the righteousness of Yah...allows you to steal murder and lie? You and yours really seem to want to...

Ha, you're the only one I see here who is obsessed with stealing, murder, and lying. :chuckle:

imagine that...the law doing what it was supposed to do... point out sin and need for salvation and Who can do that for you?

So again...once saved that law is abolished yes? You can go steal murder lie?

The law was never intended to make men righteous. Why do you think it will do so after we come to the Lord Jesus Christ?

good...stick to twisting and torturing my posts...please leave Paul alone...

So this walk of faith allows you to steal murder lie?


one results in the other...

seriously HOW BIG DOES ONE HAVE TO WRITE THE WORDS? Never did I say we keep the law TO BE SAVED...but being saved we now WANT TO keep the law...if you love HIM...

right...is why israel was saved from Egypt BEFORE it even received the Law...

By Faith Abraham Noah and the rest of Heb 11...were saved...AND THEN OBEYED

So again since you are saved by your faith by what He did...are you now allowed to steal murder and lie?

Faith and works were required of all those under the law. Grace is a whole new thing. It was a mystery revealed to Paul....and it seems to still be a mystery to you.