turbosixx
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All you have stated is your opinions without any verses to back them up. I would like to understand what's your point. If you have a better grasp on the truth, I need to hear it. With scripture to support it of course.
Justification by Faith !
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All you have stated is your opinions without any verses to back them up. I would like to understand what's your point. If you have a better grasp on the truth, I need to hear it. With scripture to support it of course.
turbosixx
New member
Please explain.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do,
beloved57
Well-known member
Theres nothing for us to discuss ! Please leave the thread.
turbosixx
New member
no problem
This is your comment:
It seems like you are saying our works does not matter.
But you show the verses says obedient works matter.
Question for you:
Are choices "works"?
turbosixx
New member
That about sums it up. I'll try to explain my point the best I can.
Concerning salvation, we cannot earn salvation by our works. There's only been one person that has lived a sinless life and that's Jesus. Therefore, since we are sinners we can never be "good enough" to earn salvation, that's why it's a gift.
Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
As for why works matter. At my current level of understanding, I believe we must be obedient(works) to receive this gift. Not only a one time obedience but continue to live a life as obedient as possible. For example, when we look at this parable, Jesus says everyone "in me". These are individuals who are in Christ but if they do not bear fruit(works), they are cast out of Christ.
Jn. 15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
So works can't earn salvation but they are necessary to receive salvation and to continue to be saved. Hope that makes sense.
Nope, you are essentially saying the same thing with OSAS believers. Your reasoning does not make sense.
It is like trinity doctrine the way you are explaining it; confusion.
turbosixx
New member
I didn't think I would be able to explain it very well but I in no way agree with OSAS. I see too many passages that warn Christians to be careful of disobedience so as not to be saved.
I appreciate your comments.
Are you sure those passages are meant for Christians and not for believers in Israel?
turbosixx
New member
I'm not sure what you mean by believers in Israel?
Warnings can be found in the book of Corinthians. The book is address to Christians.
I Cor. 1:2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:
There is nothing wrong with the concept of OSAS.
However, being saved does not equate to the first resurrection.
If a person is already saved they can join others who will receive salvation in the second resurrection.
Jesus' letters to the seven churches are to saved people.
turbosixx
New member
Do you understand OSAS to mean that anyone who becomes a Christian can never lose their salvation?
At my current level of understanding, I don't see scripture supporting that concept. All the letters written after Acts are addressed to Christians (saved). The language used to me indicates the very real possibility of not being saved on judgement day.
You mentioned Jesus' letters in Revelation. I agree, he is writing to those who are saved(Christians) and he mentions some who's salvation isn't in question, but there are others that will be lost if they do not overcome.
For example in Ch. 3, the language here, "the one who conquers".
Rev. 3:5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.
It looks to me if OSAS is a true concept, then once a person becomes a Christian, that's the moment they conquer.
Am I missing something?
Right Divider
Body part
Yes, you are missing something. It's called the gospel of the grace of God.
The book of Revelation is completely and totally about Israel and not the body of Christ.
turbosixx
New member
Hey, long time no debate
Jamie brought up Jesus' letters so I just used that. I see the same kind of language in Paul's letters.
For example, in 1 Cor. 9:24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. 25 Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. 27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
If OSAS is true, I wouldn't expect to see Paul telling Christians to "run that you may obtain it" or "I myself should be disqualified".
Thanks for your input.
Right Divider
Body part
You're taking that passage badly out of context. He is NOT making the race about "winning" eternal life.Hey, long time no debate
Jamie brought up Jesus' letters so I just used that. I see the same kind of language in Paul's letters.
For example, in 1 Cor. 9:24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. 25 Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. 27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
If OSAS is true, I wouldn't expect to see Paul telling Christians to "run that you may obtain it" or "I myself should be disqualified".
Thanks for your input.
John 5:24 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Please be the first to actually explain how Jesus could be preaching the gospel of the grace of God during His earthly ministry to Israel without ONCE using the word "grace".
In the parable of the ten virgins, the virgins represent believers.
When the bridegroom came some were ready and some were not ready.
The oil represents anointing as kings and priests in the kingdom.
"For You were slain and have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and have made us kings and priests to our God, and we shall reign on the earth." (Revelation 5:9-10)
Those who were ready went into the marriage and the door was forever shut.
Jesus will be the husband of one wife. This was the pattern from the beginning.
The believers who weren't ready will be in the second resurrection.
The kingdom of God is the first resurrection.
Right Divider
Body part
:dizzy:
The body of Christ is the church. Jesus' letters are to his church.
Right Divider
Body part
:juggle:
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