Yes, we are saved by works. Christ works. No one needs to be predestinated, Jesus has reconciled us and the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. All that one has to do is accept the offer of reconciliation and be saved.
John Calvin's Nazi God.
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Yes, we are saved by works. Christ works. No one needs to be predestinated, Jesus has reconciled us and the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. All that one has to do is accept the offer of reconciliation and be saved.
God's Truth
New member
Reconciliation is God living in your heart.
Tell me how God is going to live in your heart if you have unrepentant sin living there?
John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
You have narrowly circumscribed God to a book,...that is rather myopic, illogical and unnecessary, since God is INFINITE. I have full conscious awareness of whatever choices are being made available in each arising moment. Most sentient beings do
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
You cannot limit 'God' to a book, which is based on only assumptions that it is somehow God's word written by human authors. We are free to discuss, debate and consider what teachings, concepts, beliefs, principles, analogies are presented in any given religious book, hence the purpose of this particular forum under 'Religion'. How you see it, is limited to your own conditioned belief system, upbringing, personal preference and current knowledge parameters,...however revelation is progressive, and one is always free to learn/discover more in their pursuit of truth. How you see things is respected, granted its limited range, but there is always MORE to see.
Eagles Wings
New member
Of course we can discuss all manner of spiritual topics, however, the Canon of Scripture is closed and one who has not been given Faith, will not understand God and His words to His beloved. I hope someday you will understand what I mean. BTW - I am a happily married woman, have adult children and grand children. As I am reminded of you now and then, I pray that God willing, you will know Him in His holiness and mercy.
It is the Holy Spirit that indwells the believer.
The Biblical emphasis is that Jesus is heaven at the right hand of God, mediating his righteousness on our behalf, 1 Timothy 2:5.
It is Catholic Romanism to say that Jesus is in your heart.
I always suspected that you were Catholic.
God's Truth
New member
Are you saying that Jesus does not live inside you?
Then you are not his.
This is Jesus speaking:
John 17:26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."
Galatians 4:6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father.
Romans 8:9
You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
You are in really bad shape Robert Pate.
Lon
Well-known member
1) No, you have no idea why I was motivated. You were a disruption, plain and simple. 2) Don't blame your transgressions of rules you agreed to when you signed up for TOL, on me. Scapegoating isn't honest to me or a reflection upon me. It isn't dealing honestly with yourself either. That's clear, whether I have a superior degree behind the observation or not. It is what it actually is, not your made-up fantasies about it. Grow up. Get better. Your ban for your bad behavior clearly reveals you were the one who broke your word. No infraction or warning was ever given to me. I've received 1 (one) ever in the first year I was on TOL which was merely a misunderstanding by Delmar and my fault as poor wording. At the time, we weren't allowed to second-guess mods. I didn't, but he and I enjoyed the humor of it. My word means something to me. Grow up. Come to know Christ. Philippians 3:10
It isn't a violation. It is a error propagated by a novice. 2 Timothy 2:15 (read it, don't be an ignoramus). Find your ACTUAL place in this world. Too many of you think you are gurus when you haven't done ANY heavy lifting, let alone continuing to study to be approved. Look at your response: All emote and personal attack. There is not a shred, nadda, nothing, about the thread. Just your personal beef with your superiors and betters like the baby novice you are.You only show that you view yourself as superior, and even worse, that you feel the way you do because you PAID someone else to "know" God, (in violation of the admonishments in His Word).
daqq is a baby novice :rotfl:and a baby genius
I posted on-topic as you requested to someone else and got the same as always from you: pontification about yourself and your highly esteemed education. It is you that needs to grow up. You certainly do not act like someone with a higher education, and even if you did it would only mean that you PAID to be taught exactly what your itching ears wanted to hear so that you might become exactly as your are: self-justified, Acts 8:20-23 KJV, Rom 2:11 KJV, Eph 6:8-9 KJV, 1Tim 3:1-9 KJV, Titus 1:7-11 KJV, 1Pet 5:1-3 KJV, James 2:1-9 KJV, Jude 1:16 KJV, dear filthy lucre nineveh. :Nineveh:
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
The 'god' who CHOOSES to PASS OVER U...........
The 'god' who CHOOSES to PASS OVER U...........
I think Calvinism has already been thoroughly repudiated upon some of its main essential propositions within TULIP, thru our expose of it via commentary, treating the concepts by their principle and ethic alone, and some good video-presentations by Dr. Jerry L. Walls here. No one in their right mind could believe in the 'Nazi God' presented in at least the hyper-version of Calvinism, but we've seen that even the classical version of Calvinism, (soft-boiled as it is)...still holds to PRETERITION, where 'God' passes over souls to leave them for dead. It is a 'god' who abandons and deserts souls, surely something wholly contrary to love. It is therefore a 'soteriology' of a selfish damning 'god', whos selfishness also extends to an 'elect' group of lucky ones who just happened to be saved, ONLY because God determined it. It is a totally depraved theology where man is deprived of genuine freedom. This 'god' could afford saving grace to all souls, but CHOOSINGLY refuses to do so.
The 'god' who CHOOSES to PASS OVER U...........
I think Calvinism has already been thoroughly repudiated upon some of its main essential propositions within TULIP, thru our expose of it via commentary, treating the concepts by their principle and ethic alone, and some good video-presentations by Dr. Jerry L. Walls here. No one in their right mind could believe in the 'Nazi God' presented in at least the hyper-version of Calvinism, but we've seen that even the classical version of Calvinism, (soft-boiled as it is)...still holds to PRETERITION, where 'God' passes over souls to leave them for dead. It is a 'god' who abandons and deserts souls, surely something wholly contrary to love. It is therefore a 'soteriology' of a selfish damning 'god', whos selfishness also extends to an 'elect' group of lucky ones who just happened to be saved, ONLY because God determined it. It is a totally depraved theology where man is deprived of genuine freedom. This 'god' could afford saving grace to all souls, but CHOOSINGLY refuses to do so.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
The Bible promises a NEW AGE................
The Bible promises a NEW AGE................
Truth is universal.
God is one.
One Ocean; many rivers.
One Sun; many rays.
~*~*~
If you've read tons of 'new age books' I would expect your scope and breadth of universal wisdom to be a bit more expansive As far as the Urantia Book goes, those interested may engage in the thread dedicated to its discussion, and like anything else...if you want to learn what a religious text teaches, read it for yourself first, and/or dialogue with those who are not purposely misrepresenting or distorting it. Use your God-given intelligence.
More importantly, getting back on topic,....anyone who swallows TULIP, hook, line and sinker,....either does so ignorantly, or does so knowingly by accepting an egotistical 'god' who plays souls as pawns upon its own cosmic chess board, already planning and enforcing the damnation of a good many, while only saving an elect group, ALL for this god's own glory. One has to step back and really look at all the implications of this theology and the sovereign 'god' who serves as its 'dictator'...and then choose whether or not such a 'god' is actually in reality....the true 'God'. - that's something you yourself must choose, and you yourself will be RESPONSIBLE for. - therefore I recommend you choose wisely. - yes....you DO have a choice. - but that's something this dictator 'god' wants to deprive you of.
The Bible promises a NEW AGE................
Truth is universal.
God is one.
One Ocean; many rivers.
One Sun; many rays.
~*~*~
If you've read tons of 'new age books' I would expect your scope and breadth of universal wisdom to be a bit more expansive
As far as the Urantia Book goes, those interested may engage in the thread dedicated to its discussion, and like anything else...if you want to learn what a religious text teaches, read it for yourself first, and/or dialogue with those who are not purposely misrepresenting or distorting it. Use your God-given intelligence.More importantly, getting back on topic,....anyone who swallows TULIP, hook, line and sinker,....either does so ignorantly, or does so knowingly by accepting an egotistical 'god' who plays souls as pawns upon its own cosmic chess board, already planning and enforcing the damnation of a good many, while only saving an elect group, ALL for this god's own glory. One has to step back and really look at all the implications of this theology and the sovereign 'god' who serves as its 'dictator'...and then choose whether or not such a 'god' is actually in reality....the true 'God'. - that's something you yourself must choose, and you yourself will be RESPONSIBLE for. - therefore I recommend you choose wisely. - yes....you DO have a choice. - but that's something this dictator 'god' wants to deprive you of.
Eagles Wings
New member
Seems to me we had similar discussions with Sonnet.
Anti-Christian posters have nothing valid to say about our Blessed Lord.
They repudiate nothing.
They tell lies about our Savior and have no excuse for their unbelief.
Anti-Christian posters have nothing valid to say about our Blessed Lord.
They repudiate nothing.
They tell lies about our Savior and have no excuse for their unbelief.
Lon
Well-known member
And such is pride in this assessment yelling 'unfair!' and thumping one's own chest, "I am worth saving!"
The contrast? James 4:6
Not primarily about pride over other men, but rather one's own pride before God. It is a demand that God, Calvinist or otherwise, bow to man in deference to his merits and pride in himself. Analyze it in yourself. It is exactly as I'm describing. Your embrace of Urantia is exactly this: A demand of God to accept you exactly as you are, sin intact, thus a God who is more the author of sin than any Calvinist could ever be accused of. Literally. Think long and hard with self introspection...
Lon
Well-known member
This does not mean new age nor is the universe all there is. It cannot contain a Spiritual God.
Specifically because there is nothing beside Him. He is the expression of everything. You do not understand that Jesus is God, but you are a finite expression, very small, of the infinite.
:nono: Think harder. God is beyond finite expressions such as this. It is thinking stuck in a subroutine.
:nono: This is the problem with new age thinking: Stuck in finite little subroutines.
The ONLY thing people get from this is your anti-Christian pre-existent bent that you will be stuck with all the rest of your life as you demand God bow to you rather than vise-versa. There is a need to be separated from your sin. It causes death. You cannot travel to eternity with it. It is impossible.
Freudian slip: "Good" many...as if all men are worthy and have no need of a Savior. That is what is on the table with your thoughts.
"Elect" is a biblical term. Both with above and this, it is no longer a Calvinist/Christian discussion, but a Christian vs. nonChristian discussion. There is no meaningful way to discuss 'election' with a nonChristian without it simply being a Christian/nonChristian discussion rather than a Calvinist discussion. They aren't the same concerns.
You think yourself 'good' with no need of a Savior. Under your philosophy, there is no need to even discuss such. It is not the same concern for you that it is for other Christians.
You? A mere man choosing who God 'must be?' :think: There IS a difference between who you and I think we are and who we think God is... Your's isn't even in the Bible.
There is a God. I am not Him. Not true with you
..."IF" Christ is not raised...[THEN] we are to be pittied most among men and we are still in our sins.
You reject the substitutionary work of the Cross. As such, you are that if and then man.
Can't Romans 3:23; 5:8; 6:23
Dying is dying. Your choice as a dead man is just that. We are dead in our sins and to be pittied among men if Christ isn't raised. It is His choice or none at all.
You started this post with Truth being universal. By that, I believe you mean it cannot change. If so, then what is fact DOES NOT create a dictator. It simply creates facts. If it is a fact that you are in sin against God. Then it is a fact that you are infected and can do nothing about it. The problem: This condition affects your thinking. God HAS to save us or we are hopeless in our helplessness. No "Dictator" screaming does a lick of good after that. It is merely complaining in arrogance... ignorance. Think: "You are dying of a disease you deny you have. Nobody cares what you think is unfair about it. They may care enough to point you to the innoculation line again, but they aren't listening to whining. This is the point of most Calvinism/other discussions. It boils down to this in a nutshell. People who refuse vaccinations might be convinced in their righteous stance, but it cannot save them from the Mumps or Chicken Pox. Perhaps the doctors were dictators about that, but weren't they really just giving facts? Did it really make them dictators? Were they 'unfair' in not giving those inoculations to those who refused them? Wasn't it really that consequences follow actions with absolutely no emoting fanfare? :think:
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
My commentary stands, and there is no personal 'pride' involved in its rational or logical conclusion. You therefore misunderstand and misconstrue what is being communicated,. You're retracting back to a last resort explanation of "God can do what He wants to, because He's God". - this doesn't explain or resolve the illogical, inconsistency, immorality and tyranny of the Calvinistic 'god' who passes over and abandons some souls because he chooses to (no one knows why he chooses to damn some and save others, its a mystery) and does NOT afford them a real opportunity to choose salvation, while only an elect group gets rewarded with salvation, and both camps neither chose their condition or destiny, so have no response-ability (no real freedom) in the matter. Its a system that defies love, logic, reason and sanity. An intelligent person seeing this, is not a matter of pride, but one being intellectually honest with the propositions assumed in TULIP.
By consenting to TULIP, you align yourself with the propositions presented as being representative of 'God', so you're God is impartial, fickle, arbitrary, unloving, insane, irrational. At least in Theosophy, and universal metaphysical systems, which respect universal law,...the law of karma prevails, and there is true justice as each soul only reaps what it sows and there is equal compensation for all actions. In TULIP, you have 'preterition' which violates the law of karma and justice, by imposing damnation upon souls by no choice of their own, by no merit of their own, but imposed violence and desertion, a total deprival and travesty of love.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
This does not mean new age nor is the universe all there is. It cannot contain a Spiritual God.
Specifically because there is nothing beside Him. He is the expression of everything. You do not understand that Jesus is God, but you are a finite expression, very small, of the infinite.
:nono: Think harder. God is beyond finite expressions such as this. It is thinking stuck in a subroutine.
:nono: This is the problem with new age thinking: Stuck in finite little subroutines.
The ONLY thing people get from this is your anti-Christian pre-existent bent that you will be stuck with all the rest of your life as you demand God bow to you rather than vise-versa. There is a need to be separated from your sin. It causes death. You cannot travel to eternity with it. It is impossible.
Freudian slip: "Good" many...as if all men are worthy and have no need of a Savior. That is what is on the table with your thoughts.
"Elect" is a biblical term. Both with above and this, it is no longer a Calvinist/Christian discussion, but a Christian vs. nonChristian discussion. There is no meaningful way to discuss 'election' with a nonChristian without it simply being a Christian/nonChristian discussion rather than a Calvinist discussion. They aren't the same concerns.
You think yourself 'good' with no need of a Savior. Under your philosophy, there is no need to even discuss such. It is not the same concern for you that it is for other Christians.
You? A mere man choosing who God 'must be?' :think: There IS a difference between who you and I think we are and who we think God is... Your's isn't even in the Bible.
There is a God. I am not Him. Not true with you
..."IF" Christ is not raised...[THEN] we are to be pittied most among men and we are still in our sins.
You reject the substitutionary work of the Cross. As such, you are that if and then man.
Can't Romans 3:23; 5:8; 6:23
Dying is dying. Your choice as a dead man is just that. We are dead in our sins and to be pittied among men if Christ isn't raised. It is His choice or none at all.
You started this post with Truth being universal. By that, I believe you mean it cannot change. If so, then what is fact DOES NOT create a dictator. It simply creates facts. If it is a fact that you are in sin against God. Then it is a fact that you are infected and can do nothing about it. The problem: This condition affects your thinking. God HAS to save us or we are hopeless in our helplessness. No "Dictator" screaming does a lick of good after that. It is merely complaining in arrogance... ignorance. Think: "You are dying of a disease you deny you have. Nobody cares what you think is unfair about it. They may care enough to point you to the innoculation line again, but they aren't listening to whining. This is the point of most Calvinism/other discussions. It boils down to this in a nutshell. People who refuse vaccinations might be convinced in their righteous stance, but it cannot save them from the Mumps or Chicken Pox. Perhaps the doctors were dictators about that, but weren't they really just giving facts? Did it really make them dictators? Were they 'unfair' in not giving those inoculations to those who refused them? Wasn't it really that consequences follow actions with absolutely no emoting fanfare? :think:
If you're giving your worship to a 'god' who damns souls for all eternity and PASSES OVER Them, totally abandoning them when this 'god' could offer them saving grace and an opportunity to choose salvation, then something in your own soul, which gives consent or derives pleasure from such a desecration and miscarriage of love and justice, must attract you to such a 'god', a 'god' mirroring your own psychology of self-punishment and misplaced concept of 'sovereignty'. This 'god' does NOT love every soul. This 'god' is Not love.
God breathed means written by God. You telling him he's narrow isn't goodYou have narrowly circumscribed God to a book,...that is rather myopic, illogical and unnecessary, since God is INFINITE. I have full conscious awareness of whatever choices are being made available in each arising moment. Most sentient beings do
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