John Calvin's Nazi God.

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Regulative Principle of Worship (RPW)

Regulative Principle of Worship (RPW)

Could the confessions be included I worship songs?

No. Per the regulative principle of worship, the whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men. So if it is not commanded in Scripture to do in worship or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture as that which is required, then it must not be done, it must not be added to God's worship.

Note that the regulative principle of worship (RPW) denies the often heard "well, if it is not prohibited, it can be done". The RPW requires something to be commanded by God, expressly or by good and necessary consequence, for worship. Worship is an act of bowing to God's sovereign authority. There is no genuine honor given to the divine Name where there is not implicit submission to the divine Will; there is no place for human creativity in the worship of the Almighty. True worshipers are receptive, not creative; they attend on the Most High God and await His Word before they do anything in His court.

Thus, reduced to the most elemental constituent parts, there are two approaches to worship: what is not commanded is condemned (regulative principle) vs. what is not prohibited is permitted (normative principle). Zwingli represents the first view (the RPW) and Luther the second. Since I am a Reformed believer, the first is the only view I can advocate.

So then the simple question you must ask is this:
1) Do we find any mention, command, or inference in God's Word that we ought to sing the confessions in worship of God?
The answer is No. Therefore, it must not be done.

Note that the regulative principle of worship (RPW) denies the often heard "well, if it is not prohibited, it can be done". The RPW requires something to be commanded by God, expressly or by good and necessary consequence, for worship. Worship is an act of bowing to God's sovereign authority. There is no genuine honor given to the divine Name where there is not implicit submission to the divine Will; there is no place for human creativity in the worship of the Almighty. True worshippers are receptive, not creative; they attend on the Most High God and await His Word before they do anything in His court.

The elements of Worship are listed in the Westminster Confession of Faith. They are the following (WCF 21.5):

5. The reading of the Scriptures with godly fear, (Acts 15:21, Rev. 1:3) the sound preaching (2 Tim. 4:2) and conscionable hearing of the Word, in obedience unto God, with understanding, faith and reverence, (James 1:22, Acts 10:33, Matt. 13:19, Heb. 4:2, Isa. 66:2) singing of psalms with grace in the heart; (Col. 3:16, Eph. 5:19, 13, James 5:13) as also, the due administration and worthy receiving of the sacraments instituted by Christ, are all parts of the ordinary religious worship of God: (Matt. 28:19, 1 Cor. 11:23-29, Acts 2:42) beside religious oaths, (Deut. 6:13, Neh. 10:29) vows, (Isa. 19:21, Eccl. 5:4-5) solemn fastings, (Joel 2:12, Esth. 4:16, Matt. 9:15, 1 Cor. 7:5) and thanksgivings upon special occasions, (Ps. 107, Esth. 9:22) which are, in their several times and seasons, to be used in an holy and religious manner. (Heb. 12:28)

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

No. Per the regulative principle of worship, the whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men. So if it is not commanded in Scripture to do in worship or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture as that which is required, then it must not be done, it must not be added to God's worship.

Note that the regulative principle of worship (RPW) denies the often heard "well, if it is not prohibited, it can be done". The RPW requires something to be commanded by God, expressly or by good and necessary consequence, for worship. Worship is an act of bowing to God's sovereign authority. There is no genuine honor given to the divine Name where there is not implicit submission to the divine Will; there is no place for human creativity in the worship of the Almighty. True worshipers are receptive, not creative; they attend on the Most High God and await His Word before they do anything in His court.

Thus, reduced to the most elemental constituent parts, there are two approaches to worship: what is not commanded is condemned (regulative principle) vs. what is not prohibited is permitted (normative principle). Zwingli represents the first view (the RPW) and Luther the second. Since I am a Reformed believer, the first is the only view I can advocate.

So then the simple question you must ask is this:
1) Do we find any mention, command, or inference in God's Word that we ought to sing the confessions in worship of God?
The answer is No. Therefore, it must not be done.

Note that the regulative principle of worship (RPW) denies the often heard "well, if it is not prohibited, it can be done". The RPW requires something to be commanded by God, expressly or by good and necessary consequence, for worship. Worship is an act of bowing to God's sovereign authority. There is no genuine honor given to the divine Name where there is not implicit submission to the divine Will; there is no place for human creativity in the worship of the Almighty. True worshippers are receptive, not creative; they attend on the Most High God and await His Word before they do anything in His court.

The elements of Worship are listed in the Westminster Confession of Faith. They are the following (WCF 21.5):

5. The reading of the Scriptures with godly fear, (Acts 15:21, Rev. 1:3) the sound preaching (2 Tim. 4:2) and conscionable hearing of the Word, in obedience unto God, with understanding, faith and reverence, (James 1:22, Acts 10:33, Matt. 13:19, Heb. 4:2, Isa. 66:2) singing of psalms with grace in the heart; (Col. 3:16, Eph. 5:19, 13, James 5:13) as also, the due administration and worthy receiving of the sacraments instituted by Christ, are all parts of the ordinary religious worship of God: (Matt. 28:19, 1 Cor. 11:23-29, Acts 2:42) beside religious oaths, (Deut. 6:13, Neh. 10:29) vows, (Isa. 19:21, Eccl. 5:4-5) solemn fastings, (Joel 2:12, Esth. 4:16, Matt. 9:15, 1 Cor. 7:5) and thanksgivings upon special occasions, (Ps. 107, Esth. 9:22) which are, in their several times and seasons, to be used in an holy and religious manner. (Heb. 12:28)

AMR

This is why he is "Mr Religion" and why his prayers fall on the ground.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Drive-by Posts Welcome - There is no such thing as bad publicity to the discerning

Drive-by Posts Welcome - There is no such thing as bad publicity to the discerning

This is why he is "Mr Religion" and why his prayers fall on the ground.

Thank you for stopping by, Robert, and fully quoting my post just in case it gets missed. Obviously it was made for those having ears to hear and needs all the publicity it can garner from the drive-by posters who, having nothing really to say, never fail to give ample evidence of it. :AMR:

AMR

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

All that God says and does is within the frame work of his holy, just, merciful and righteous nature. God cannot sin against himself nor can he sin against his created beings. This is why we can trust and believe in him. Unfortunately the same cannot be said about your Calvinist God.

We should be able to trust him because he cannot lie.

To know him is another matter all together.

 

[TulipBee]

This is why he is "Mr Religion" and why his prayers fall on the ground.

Were you baptised?

 

[TulipBee]

No. Per the regulative principle of worship, the whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men. So if it is not commanded in Scripture to do in worship or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture as that which is required, then it must not be done, it must not be added to God's worship.

Note that the regulative principle of worship (RPW) denies the often heard "well, if it is not prohibited, it can be done". The RPW requires something to be commanded by God, expressly or by good and necessary consequence, for worship. Worship is an act of bowing to God's sovereign authority. There is no genuine honor given to the divine Name where there is not implicit submission to the divine Will; there is no place for human creativity in the worship of the Almighty. True worshipers are receptive, not creative; they attend on the Most High God and await His Word before they do anything in His court.

Thus, reduced to the most elemental constituent parts, there are two approaches to worship: what is not commanded is condemned (regulative principle) vs. what is not prohibited is permitted (normative principle). Zwingli represents the first view (the RPW) and Luther the second. Since I am a Reformed believer, the first is the only view I can advocate.

So then the simple question you must ask is this:
1) Do we find any mention, command, or inference in God's Word that we ought to sing the confessions in worship of God?
The answer is No. Therefore, it must not be done.

Note that the regulative principle of worship (RPW) denies the often heard "well, if it is not prohibited, it can be done". The RPW requires something to be commanded by God, expressly or by good and necessary consequence, for worship. Worship is an act of bowing to God's sovereign authority. There is no genuine honor given to the divine Name where there is not implicit submission to the divine Will; there is no place for human creativity in the worship of the Almighty. True worshippers are receptive, not creative; they attend on the Most High God and await His Word before they do anything in His court.

The elements of Worship are listed in the Westminster Confession of Faith. They are the following (WCF 21.5):

5. The reading of the Scriptures with godly fear, (Acts 15:21, Rev. 1:3) the sound preaching (2 Tim. 4:2) and conscionable hearing of the Word, in obedience unto God, with understanding, faith and reverence, (James 1:22, Acts 10:33, Matt. 13:19, Heb. 4:2, Isa. 66:2) singing of psalms with grace in the heart; (Col. 3:16, Eph. 5:19, 13, James 5:13) as also, the due administration and worthy receiving of the sacraments instituted by Christ, are all parts of the ordinary religious worship of God: (Matt. 28:19, 1 Cor. 11:23-29, Acts 2:42) beside religious oaths, (Deut. 6:13, Neh. 10:29) vows, (Isa. 19:21, Eccl. 5:4-5) solemn fastings, (Joel 2:12, Esth. 4:16, Matt. 9:15, 1 Cor. 7:5) and thanksgivings upon special occasions, (Ps. 107, Esth. 9:22) which are, in their several times and seasons, to be used in an holy and religious manner. (Heb. 12:28)

AMR

Thanks. I've been church hopping for the sake of learning the historical differences between denominations. I ended up being members of multiple of churches to learned much of thier cores. Each denomination having disagreement or aggreements caused me to seek out the whys. I didn't realize how hyper or "a labeled" Calvinism I was reading certian documents. I found that the PCA asks me the same membership questions the Southern Baptists asks. PCA did state in thier orientation booklets that it's both. In both, I mean by "God chooses" and " have you accepted Jesus". The elders of the PCA asked me if "I have accepted Jesus" questions to finalize membership.
While I find differences in denominations, the Baptists and the Presbyterians are asking me the same questions. I give them an hour "God does the choosing" lectures but end up answering thier questions that I have accepted jesus just to gain membership and so we can all go home. They wanted an answer in thier way. I find PCA don't really follow the Westminster confessions. I see siminliaries in denominations and I hear many types of confessions in praise songs.

Reformed changed things around probably later at the end of the lives. Calvin later in his life regrets witnessing for burning at stakes. It's in his dairies as well as below:

John Calvin said, " The word 'baptise' signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the primitive church."

Also, Martin Luther said, " baptism is a Greek word and may be translated immerse. I would have those who are to be baptised to be altogether dipped."

John Wesley said, "buried with him in baptism -alluding to the ancient manner of baptizing by immersion."

Sticking with the Westminster confession is in question when the reformed say those things.

I think confessions should be simpler and I hear sinners express them during praises songs and prayers as well as during sermons. I say these things cause I saw and heard them myself. I find the world isn't as honest as they claim to be.

In Presbyterian churches, I've seen many babies baptised. I've seen young kids get baptised but I have never seen adult baptism.

The face value of the Bible seems the way to go for now.

 

[Robert Pate]

Thanks. I've been church hopping for the sake of learning the historical differences between denominations. I ended up being members of multiple of churches to learned much of thier cores. Each denomination having disagreement or aggreements caused me to seek out the whys. I didn't realize how hyper or "a labeled" Calvinism I was reading certian documents. I found that the PCA asks me the same membership questions the Southern Baptists asks. PCA did state in thier orientation booklets that it's both. In both, I mean by "God chooses" and " have you accepted Jesus". The elders of the PCA asked me if "I have accepted Jesus" questions to finalize membership.
While I find differences in denominations, the Baptists and the Presbyterians are asking me the same questions. I give them an hour "God does the choosing" lectures but end up answering thier questions that I have accepted jesus just to gain membership and so we can all go home. They wanted an answer in thier way. I find PCA don't really follow the Westminster confessions. I see siminliaries in denominations and I hear many types of confessions in praise songs.

Reformed changed things around probably later at the end of the lives. Calvin later in his life regrets witnessing for burning at stakes. It's in his dairies as well as below:

John Calvin said, " The word 'baptise' signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the primitive church."

Also, Martin Luther said, " baptism is a Greek word and may be translated immerse. I would have those who are to be baptised to be altogether dipped."

John Wesley said, "buried with him in baptism -alluding to the ancient manner of baptizing by immersion."

Sticking with the Westminster confession is in question when the reformed say those things.

I think confessions should be simpler and I hear sinners express them during praises songs and prayers as well as during sermons. I say these things cause I saw and heard them myself. I find the world isn't as honest as they claim to be.

In Presbyterian churches, I've seen many babies baptised. I've seen young kids get baptised but I have never seen adult baptism.

The face value of the Bible seems the way to go for now.

Religion will not lead you to Christ and his Gospel. Religion will lead you into yourself who is a sinner.

 

[TulipBee]

Unbaptized Patism is a religion

 

[Robert Pate]

Unbaptized Patism is a religion

The only thing that baptism will do for you is get you wet.

If you want to be saved, you must come to Christ as a repentant sinner and ask him to save you. Otherwise you will perish.

 

[TulipBee]

Christains does what God wants via His commands

 

[Crucible]

They don't even do baptisms :chuckle:

Just another sin to add to Madism- excuses for spiritual and ecclesiastical laziness

 

[Robert Pate]

They don't even do baptisms :chuckle:

Just another sin to add to Madism- excuses for spiritual and ecclesiastical laziness

My baptism was perfect.

When Jesus was baptized, I was baptized with him.

 

[Robert Pate]

Christains does what God wants via His commands

How dull for God. So, nothing is done out of love and respect for what Christ has done for us?

 

[Crucible]

There are no reports of any group of people in the history of Christianity not performing water baptism.

The rejection of it began with Madists, and it will stay with Madists

 

[freelight]

There are no reports of any group of people in the history of Christianity not performing water baptism.

The rejection of it began with Madists, and it will stay with Madists

Traditionally speaking, of course total immersion baptisms appear the standard from the 1st century on,...although nothing wrong with sprinklings or whatever other forms of baptism one may engage.....its really the inward faith and witness of an inner transformation, repentance and renewal of life that matters, as there is no magical power in the water itself to effect any change in the person. It is all the Spirit's work in the soul. Our outward religious rituals or gestures are just that,...a public expression of our faith.

 

[Crucible]

Traditionally speaking, of course total immersion baptisms appear the standard from the 1st century on,...although nothing wrong with sprinklings or whatever other forms of baptism one may engage.....its really the inward faith and witness of an inner transformation, repentance and renewal of life that matters, as there is no magical power in the water itself to effect any change in the person. It is all the Spirit's work in the soul. Our outward religious rituals or gestures are just that,...a public expression of our faith.

Baptism is simply done with water- how it's done is not something anyone was ever concerned about. The Christians in Rome baptized with buckets and spoons to avoid being seen by pagan authorities.

They also baptized their children- if anything, for the sake of bringing them into the familial Body in case they are orphaned by a martyred parent.
Which is yet another thing so many have unfortunately done away with in their misunderstanding of baptism.

It's not even something that needs to be public- only a witness is needed. It is a rite of passage- Madists just sabotage the spirit of tradition is all, and other sects spoil the rite by squabbling about how to do it and why it's significant.

 

[freelight]

According to the Bible you don't believe, my God is the only God.

Your opinion is noted, as well as your 'version' of 'God'.

Here, we use the Bible as our source of truths.

Its one source, among others religious books one may consult. This is the 'Religion' section, therefore it includes all religious traditions, schools and culture. Truth is universal, since 'God' its living source, is universal.

You use urantian book as your source of truths. One belongs here and one does not.

False. The UB is but one of many religious books of recent dispensation that one may afford themselves in their religious and philosophical studies,...being 'eclectic' Im at liberty to explore, research and study many different texts. 'God' gives me that liberty.

Here, we should join the rest of the world and do something about fake news. Some sites loose its members when folks are increasingly becoming more aware of fake news. Your unfamiliar celestials gives you fake news. Bible does not even though you say it does.

Not sure where your going with this, but you dont have a 'monopoly' on 'God', neither does any one religious 'tradition' or 'cult' represent all there is to know about 'God' in his totality of all possible expressions and representations.

 

[freelight]

Baptism is simply done with water- how it's done is not something anyone was ever concerned about. The Christians in Rome baptized with buckets and spoons to avoid being seen by pagan authorities.

They also baptized their children- if anything, for the sake of bringing them into the familial Body in case they are orphaned by a martyred parent.
Which is yet another thing so many have unfortunately done away with in their misunderstanding of baptism.

It's not even something that needs to be public- only a witness is needed. It is a rite of passage- Madists just sabotage the spirit of tradition is all, and other sects spoil the rite by squabbling about how to do it and why it's significant.

Sure,...any witnesses the baptized may wish to be present, may be allowed. Some prefer to be baptized among a host of other believers, making it a community experience, hence the term 'public' being used. It still stands,...there is no magic about the water that transforms anyone, besides some inward repentance or work of grace within one's heart and soul. That was my emphasis.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Conservative Presbyterianism and Paedo-Baptism

Conservative Presbyterianism and Paedo-Baptism

Thanks. I've been church hopping for the sake of learning the historical differences between denominations. I ended up being members of multiple of churches to learned much of thier cores. Each denomination having disagreement or aggreements caused me to seek out the whys. I didn't realize how hyper or "a labeled" Calvinism I was reading certian documents. I found that the PCA asks me the same membership questions the Southern Baptists asks. PCA did state in thier orientation booklets that it's both. In both, I mean by "God chooses" and " have you accepted Jesus". The elders of the PCA asked me if "I have accepted Jesus" questions to finalize membership.
While I find differences in denominations, the Baptists and the Presbyterians are asking me the same questions. I give them an hour "God does the choosing" lectures but end up answering thier questions that I have accepted jesus just to gain membership and so we can all go home. They wanted an answer in thier way. I find PCA don't really follow the Westminster confessions. I see siminliaries in denominations and I hear many types of confessions in praise songs.

Reformed changed things around probably later at the end of the lives. Calvin later in his life regrets witnessing for burning at stakes. It's in his dairies as well as below:

John Calvin said, " The word 'baptise' signifies to immerse. It is certain that immersion was the practice of the primitive church."

Also, Martin Luther said, " baptism is a Greek word and may be translated immerse. I would have those who are to be baptised to be altogether dipped."

John Wesley said, "buried with him in baptism -alluding to the ancient manner of baptizing by immersion."

Sticking with the Westminster confession is in question when the reformed say those things.

I think confessions should be simpler and I hear sinners express them during praises songs and prayers as well as during sermons. I say these things cause I saw and heard them myself. I find the world isn't as honest as they claim to be.

In Presbyterian churches, I've seen many babies baptised. I've seen young kids get baptised but I have never seen adult baptism.

The face value of the Bible seems the way to go for now.

Unfortunately, PCA churches vary considerably as to how conservative they may be. That said, any of the NAPARC churches should be considered: http://www.naparc.org/member-churches/

Although the site is no longer active, this list from an archived version of the page remains very useful:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160909182121/http://www.tateville.com/churches.html

Presbyterian churches, by definition are paedo-baptistic, so it will be rare to see adult baptisms taking place, as adults who have been lawfully baptized previously in other denominations are not re-baptized when they present themselves to covenant with a Presbyterian church.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Robert Pate - The Lone Ranger

Robert Pate - The Lone Ranger

My baptism was perfect.

When Jesus was baptized, I was baptized with him.

Not surprising at all, Robert, given your Lone Ranger status and how your many errors spring forth from such:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...edestination&p=4402162&viewfull=1#post4402162

AMR