John 3:5 defines the new birth as water baptism and Spirit baptism

[Jerry Shugart]

not Nicodemus, I mean the churches that Peter wrote too. Also 1 Peter 3:20-21 seems to say baptism saves if our hearts are right. The physical water does nothing in itself but when we are physically baptized with the right heart, God saves.

No, it is the word which is Spirit and is life, as witnessed by the Lord Jesus:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

When water baptism was in order a person received life when they believed the word and then later they were baptized with water.

 

[Jdorman]

No, it is the word which is Spirit and is life, as witnessed by the Lord Jesus:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

When water baptism was in order a person received life when they believed the word and then later they were baptized with water.

where does the bible say that baptism is not still in place

 

[Rivers]

well marks account in Mark 16:16 says "whoever"

OK, but "whoever" must be taken in the context. Mark 16:15-16 referred to the same commission given to the Eleven in Matthew 28:19-20 when even Peter had no idea that any uncircumcised people could be saved (Acts 10:13-15). Thus, there's no reason to think "whoever" referred to anyone other than the Jewish converts at that point.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

where does the bible say that baptism is not still in place

Today there is only "one baptism":

Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all" (Eph.4:3-6).​

The "one baptism" for today is the one where the Holy Spirit baptizes believers into the Body of Christ:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit"​

(1 Cor.12:13).​

Anyone who insists that the one baptism is water baptism to the exclusion of the baptism performed by the Holy Spirit only shows a lack of spiritual discernment.

 

[jamie]

Anyone who insists that the one baptism is water baptism to the exclusion of the baptism performed by the Holy Spirit only shows a lack of spiritual discernment.

Does the Holy Spirit work through humans to baptize or does he show up in person?

 

[Rivers]

Today there is only "one baptism":

The "one baptism" for today is the one where the Holy Spirit baptizes believers into the Body of Christ:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit"​

(1 Cor.12:13).​

​

I agree. Paul recognized only "one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5) and made no effort to water baptize most of his converts because it was not part of his commission to the gentiles (1 Corinthians 1:13-17). It's interesting to consider that there is not a single example of Paul ever water baptizing any uncircumcised person.​

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I agree. Paul recognized only "one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5) and made no effort to water baptize most of his converts because it was not part of his commission to the gentiles (1 Corinthians 1:13-17). It's interesting to consider that there is not a single example of Paul ever water baptizing any uncircumcised person.

There are many examples.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Today there is only "one baptism":

Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all" (Eph.4:3-6).​

The "one baptism" for today is the one where the Holy Spirit baptizes believers into the Body of Christ:

​

Act 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
Act 8:6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
Act 8:7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
Act 8:8 And there was great joy in that city.
Act 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
Act 8:10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
Act 8:11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.​

 

[Rivers]

According to this idea there are "two" baptism, one in water and one in the Spirit. However, in order to understand the Lord Jesus' words it is first necessary to understand that He referred to only one birth and not two. Sir Robert Anderson wrote:

"Now, first it is essential to notice that this is not a twofold birth (of water, and of the Spirit), but emphatically one - a birth of water-and-Spirit, in contrast with the birth which is of flesh. This is not obvious in a translation; but in the original it is unmistakable. And the context emphasises it, for in the very next sentence, and again in verse 8, the water is omitted altogether, and the new man is spoken of merely as 'born of the Spirit.' It follows, therefore, that whatever the water signifies it must be implied in the words "born of the Spirit," and every one who has been "born anew" has been "born of water and the Spirit" (Ibid., p.222).​

Robert V. McCabe agrees, writing that "in v. 5 the preposition 'ek' governs two nouns, 'hydor' and 'pneuma,' that are coordinated by 'kai.' This indicates that Jesus regards 'hydor kai pneuma' as a conceptual unity. If 'hydor kai pneuma' is a conceptual unity, this phrase may be taken either as a 'water-spirit' source or a 'water-and-Spirit' source of birth. A good case can be presented for either view in the context of John 3:1–8. With either view, there is one birth that is characterized either as 'water-spirit,' or 'water-and-Spirit.' Neither of these understandings suggest that there are two births, physical and spiritual" [emphasis added] (McCabe, "The Meaning of 'Born of Water and the Spirit' in John 3:5," Detroit Baptist Seminary Journal [Fall 1999], p.85-107).

From this we can understand that the new birth was accomplished by the gospel that comes in the power of the Holy Spirit. Here the Apostle Peter referred to both elements:

"...by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven...Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet,1:12,23,25).​

The critical problem with what Anderson and McCabe are saying here about "EK" is that, in the following verse, Jesus refers to two different kinds of "birth" (John 3:6). The context is always the determining factor (and not a grammatical element).