Jews Go to Heaven Without Knowing Jesus?

[lukecash12]

It was Jews who killed the first Christians. It was the Pagan Catholics whom killed the Jews. Get your facts straight.

Right, because we can reduce two thousand years of history into two sentences...

Just one counter-example:

The Jews were killed during both great incursions of the Black Death; being blamed in Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Russian Orthodox societies as "well poisoners".

Here are some counter-facts to the premise of the thread:

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses are with the Father right now. After all, in the account of the transfiguration the Lord makes clear that He is the God of the living, hence His title as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob necessitates the conclusion of their living.

Everyone who participated in writing the OT, be they prophet, ardent historian (possibly in the case of books like Kings 1 & 2), or patriarch, did so through the express involvement of the Holy Spirit. Paul confirms that the OT is spirit breathed, quoting oftentimes from the Septuagint, and elsewhere of course establishes that his own letters are for doctrinal instruction of the Church as a whole; ergo, they also came from the Spirit.

My understanding of this is that Jews before the atonement could still benefit from the atonement. How? While they couldn't know Christ the way that we do, there are abundant prophecies in the OT all the way back to when the Lord said that His seed would bruise Satan under His heel. In the Akkedah (Binding of Isaac), Jews could see that it is truly God Himself who provides the offering. The person of Jesus/Yeshua is later laid out more descriptively in texts like Isaiah.

Clearly, the group that Paul described in Romans as the True Israel, was looking forward to Jesus Christ.

 

[Totton Linnet]

The Jews [ethnic Israel] are not promised heaven....they are promised [by eternal covenant] the land...earth.

 

[Totton Linnet]

The Jews are the root, the church is the shoot.

The shoot is supported by the root, not vice versa

 

[Bradley D]

It is our place to be explaining how one get's there.

It logically follows that those who do not like the explanation and refuse it have another destination awaiting them.

:AMR:

AMR

I believe in having God's charity (I Cor. 13:4-8a) for all. I believe in praying for those who do reject the word. Living the word and caring for all souls seems more towards God's Will for me. Perhaps whose who reject today may accept tomorrow. If I show love instead of condemnation I believe that will attract more to the faith.
Hate the sin, but love the sinner.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Hate the sin, but love the sinner.

This view ignores the state of the lost, who can only sin more or sin less and has open the doors to all manner of syncretism within the church militant.

As far as 'hatred of sins' is concerned, sins do not exist apart from the sinner. God does hate sinning, killing, stealing, lying, lusting, etc., but this alludes to the perpetrator of these crimes.

Misconceptions about what it means to "love our enemies" have resulted in a loss of holy indignation and bold opposition against those who hate God. Christ's command tells us only to do good to those who hate us. It is akin to the the natural benevolence that God shows toward all men (Matthew 5:43-45). But Scripture never teaches us to think of the non-believer as something that they are not; rather, Scripture's position is that all non-Christians are

- deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9);
- full of evil (Mark 7:21-23);
- lovers of darkness rather than light (John 3:19);
- unrighteous, do not understand, do not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12);
- helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6);
- dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1);
- by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:3);
- not able to understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14); and
- slaves of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).

For a person to think of sinner as something better amounts to a rejection of divine revelation.

Accordingly, although we are to exhibit a natural benevolence toward non-believers, we must also be jealous for God's honor and imitate His holy hatred toward them. Unfortunately, not a few Christians "love" their enemies in a way that amounts to rebellion against God. In fact, in a properly functioning church these "loving" folk would be admonished and be subject to discipline.

We "love" non-believers in the way commanded by Christ when we offer to do them good and refuse to do them harm (Romans 12:20-21, 13:10). But we should have "nothing but hatred" (Psalm 139:22) toward non-believers in the sense that we oppose all of who they are, what they believe, and what they do, for even the civil "good" they do are for the wrong motives, denying the glory of God.

The plain fact is that our non-believing neighbors regard the Christian faith as false. Such a view is to hate us at the deepest level possible, since the content of the Christian faith permeates all of our thinking and behavior. If there is any aspect of our lives that is not yet controlled by Scriptural precepts, it is only because we are still imperfect in our sanctification, and not that we oppose Scripture on the matter. Therefore, for a person who regards Christianity as false, there is nothing in us for him to love. He cannot love us and hate our beliefs-–We are our beliefs; We are Christians.

The "love" that God and Christians show toward non-believers is to be limited to natural and temporal kindness, but on the spiritual and ideological level, God and Christians are completely opposed to the non-believer.

AMR

 

[meshak]

I believe in having God's charity (I Cor. 13:4-8a) for all. I believe in praying for those who do reject the word. Living the word and caring for all souls seems more towards God's Will for me. Perhaps whose who reject today may accept tomorrow. If I show love instead of condemnation I believe that will attract more to the faith.
Hate the sin, but love the sinner.

Well said, brother.

Jesus' message of love your enemy is self explanatory.

Too many Christians make it complicated because of their elitism. All man-made doctrines stem from elitism.

Most churches make Jesus as militant Savior.

Jesus does not approve of His followers to be elitists or militant.

 

[meshak]

Here is what Jesus says about loving your enemy:

Luke 6:27-36 King James Version)

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32For if ye love them which love you what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34And if ye to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Fatheralso is merciful.

and some more:

Matthew 26:52
“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.

 

[meshak]

Jesus is meek or humble Savior, not militant savior.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Well said, brother.

Jesus' message of love your enemy is self explanatory.

Too many Christians make it complicated because of their elitism. All man-made doctrines stem from elitism.

Most churches make Jesus as militant Savior.

Jesus does not approve of His followers to be elitists or militant.

You don't love anyone, your husband was the first victim of your religion.

You believe God has militarised Islam to punish the trins

 

[meshak]

You don't love anyone, your husband was the first victim of your religion.

You believe God has militarised Islam to punish the trins

You are still obsessed about me, I see.

You poor thing.

BTW, what I quoted is what Jesus says. It is not about me, sweetie.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Your hypocrisy is an amazement to me.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Who do you love?

 

[meshak]

Hey sweetie,

You need to concentrate on what Jesus says.

Obsessed to hate or holding grudge is not what Jesus wants from His followers.

Aren't you claiming to be true and saved Christian?

then you should try to be godly instead of obsessing about your enemy.

Obsession is not godly thing, sweetie.

peace

 

[Totton Linnet]

Who do you love meshak?

I know you had that imaginary rabbit friend you sent an e mail in a post to...telling her of your labours for the Lord, sat on your hole all day pouring out vitriol on His church. But she wasn't real person

Then there's jerzy, LA and Let'sargue who all believe God is going to kill the Christians...but you fall out with them on other things don't you.

There MUST be someone you love.....

You are always saying Jesus commanded us to love....but you don't love anyone.

 

[meshak]

Who do you love meshak?

why are you so obsessed about me, sweetie?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Perhaps you think you must be lonely to be holy, but Jesus was always surrounded by disciples who loved Him

 

[meshak]

Perhaps you think you must be lonely to be holy, but Jesus was always surrounded by disciples who loved Him

I understand your obsession but this thread is not about me, sweetie.

You need to get over your grudge and obsession.

Pray and ask God to get rid of your obsession.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Just tell me a name of someone you love, make one up if you must

You just lectured us that we must love our enemies...but you don't love anyone, that is why I chase you.

 

[meshak]

Just tell me a name of someone you love, make one up if you must

why are you so bitter?

Do you know that Jesus says to love your enemy?

 

[meshak]

Do you love Jesus?