Jewish magic or mystical Kabbalah practices

[Epoisses]

Well, that is a convincing argument!

God can save people in all three branches of Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant) but Protestants have a fuller understanding of the gospel that gives them a better chance of entering a saving relationship with Christ. God cannot save anyone in Judaism as they reject Christ as their savior. Jews need to come out from that corrupt system to experience Salvation.

 

[chair]

God can save people in all three branches of Christianity (Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant) but Protestants have a fuller understanding of the gospel that gives them a better chance of entering a saving relationship with Christ. God cannot save anyone in Judaism as they reject Christ as their savior. Jews need to come out from that corrupt system to experience Salvation.

Though I doubt your ability to understand anything that is outside of your worldview, I will try to explain something very basic to you.

The Christian idea of "Salvation" is linked with the Christian concept of Sin, and specifically "Original Sin". Men need to accept Jesus in order to be "saved" from the consequences of Original Sin.

But those concepts are Christian. Jews don't have Original Sin. We don't need to be "saved". For us salvation is national salvation, as appears in the OT, not individual salvation.

To call God's own instructions to the Jews a "corrupt system" is absurd. It is God's system for us. It was never meant for non-Jews. The history of early Christianity is that of an originally Jewish sect that broke off from Judaism. Once it became a Gentile religion, it rejected the Law, and over the generations, turned God's rules for the Jews into a negative thing, since it had to separate itself from the religion of the Jews.

 

[Epoisses]

You can never be justified or made righteous or saved by keeping the law. This is the lesson you never learned. When Jesus walked the earth the harlots and thieves and liars all thronged about him because they knew this better than the Pharisees or law keepers. The harlots, thieves and liars are in a better state than you because they do not trust in themselves or their works of righteousness. This is all elementary to the born-again Christian but it is an enigma to the Jew who thinks he is righteous by the flesh. If you haven't figured it out in 2000 years it's not going to happen.

 

[chair]

You can never be justified or made righteous or saved by keeping the law. This is the lesson you never learned. When Jesus walked the earth the harlots and thieves and liars all thronged about him because they knew this better than the Pharisees or law keepers. The harlots, thieves and liars are in a better state than you because they do not trust in themselves or their works of righteousness. This is all elementary to the born-again Christian but it is an enigma to the Jew who thinks he is righteous by the flesh. If you haven't figured it out in 2000 years it's not going to happen.

Again, you are projecting Christian concepts of being "justified" or "righteous" onto a culture you do not understand. Jews don't think about being "righteous by the flesh"- that is what you project onto us, because you think in those terms.

really.

Chair

 

[beameup]

We don't need to be "saved". For us salvation is national salvation, as appears in the OT, not individual salvation.

If you read Leviticus, you will see that there were blood offerings for all types of sin, including individual sins. Yom Kippur centers around "national salvation", however, since there is no sacrificial system since 70 AD, no sacrifices can be offered.

Go all the way back to Cain and Abel and you will see offerings made for individual sin. The "blood offering" was acceptable, the "grain offering" of Cain was rejected. That example alone is a "clue" to pursue. :sherlock:

 

[chair]

If you read Leviticus, you will see that there were blood offerings for all types of sin, including individual sins. Yom Kippur centers around "national salvation", however, since there is no sacrificial system since 70 AD, no sacrifices can be offered.

Go all the way back to Cain and Abel and you will see offerings made for individual sin. The "blood offering" was acceptable, the "grain offering" of Cain was rejected. That example alone is a "clue" to pursue. :sherlock:

What you failed to notice was that those sacrifices were brought for particular sins. Not for a general state of being human.

What sin were Cain and Able bringing sacrifices for?

You may also want to read the Book of Jonah. Please tell me where the sacrifices are in that book.

 

[Epoisses]

Again, you are projecting Christian concepts of being "justified" or "righteous" onto a culture you do not understand. Jews don't think about being "righteous by the flesh"- that is what you project onto us, because you think in those terms.

really.

Chair

And Christians do not think in terms of being saved nationally or by having the right DNA which is just a sham anyway. There are no more pure blood lines anymore as a simple DNA test would prove this. Do you really think there were no acts of infidelity in a line that goes back thousands of years? Jews have to constantly change the rules as to what makes someone a Jew - is it the mother's side or the father's side just flip a coin that's what it is.

 

[chair]

And Christians do not think in terms of being saved nationally or by having the right DNA which is just a sham anyway. There are no more pure blood lines anymore as a simple DNA test would prove this. Do you really think there were no acts of infidelity in a line that goes back thousands of years? Jews have to constantly change the rules as to what makes someone a Jew - is it the mother's side or the father's side just flip a coin that's what it is.

Being Jewish is a not a strictly genetic or racial thing, much as many of our detractors would like. It is belonging to a nation, a tribe if you like. You know full well that outsiders can and have become Jews, starting from Biblical times.

 

[Epoisses]

Being Jewish is a not a strictly genetic or racial thing, much as many of our detractors would like. It is belonging to a nation, a tribe if you like. You know full well that outsiders can and have become Jews, starting from Biblical times.

Jews can become Christians too like Peter, Paul, John and James. James was a Christian by the way.

 

[chair]

Jews can become Christians too like Peter, Paul, John and James. James was a Christian by the way.

True. So you understand that being Jewish is not strictly genetic.

 

[Epoisses]

True. So you understand that being Jewish is not strictly genetic.

Of course, You also have to reject Christ and resist the Holy Sprit with all your might.

 

[beameup]

True. So you understand that being Jewish is not strictly genetic.

How about Israeli citizenship and Mitochondrial DNA?

BTW, wasn't ancient membership in "the tribe" marked by circumcision?

 

[beameup]

You may also want to read the Book of Jonah. Please tell me where the sacrifices are in that book.

I think you need to research the Assyrian records that coincide with the evangelism of Jonah, and see what part this incident played in delaying the total destruction of Judah, and what part the "sparing of Nineveh" played in the eventual downfall of the Assyrian Empire.

 

[chair]

Of course, You also have to reject Christ and resist the Holy Sprit with all your might.

No. What a silly idea. You assume that your Christ is some kind of obvious default belief. It isn't.

 

[chair]

How about Israeli citizenship and Mitochondrial DNA?

Israeli citizenship and being Jewish are not the same thing.

BTW, wasn't ancient membership in "the tribe" marked by circumcision?

Why "was"? It still is.

 

[chair]

I think you need to research the Assyrian records that coincide with the evangelism of Jonah, and see what part this incident played in delaying the total destruction of Judah, and what part the "sparing of Nineveh" played in the eventual downfall of the Assyrian Empire.

My point, which you have ignored, is that sacrifice did not play a part in the repentance of teh people of Ninveh.

 

[beameup]

My point, which you have ignored, is that sacrifice did not play a part in the repentance of teh people of Ninveh.

Neither did "salvation". Blood sacrifice was for cleansing (of sin), which equaled salvation (albeit "temporary"). This was performed in Jerusalem.
The Ninevites "repented" (not sure what they were up to), and the City of Nineveh was "spared" from pending destruction, that's all. No "conversion" to Judaism.

"Permanent Salvation" could only be obtained by a "Permanent (ie: eternal) Sacrifice"... then the "Temporary Sacrifices" could be done away with.

 

[the589]

OT tora forbids magic or the sorts

Deuteronomy 18:10-13

 

[chair]

Neither did "salvation". Blood sacrifice was for cleansing (of sin), which equaled salvation (albeit "temporary"). This was performed in Jerusalem.
The Ninevites "repented" (not sure what they were up to), and the City of Nineveh was "spared" from pending destruction, that's all. No "conversion" to Judaism.

"Permanent Salvation" could only be obtained by a "Permanent (ie: eternal) Sacrifice"... then the "Temporary Sacrifices" could be done away with.

Apparently what I write and you read are two different things. I never suggested that Ninveh converted to Judaism. Nor did I suggest that everybody ought to become Jewish.

 

[the589]

You can never be justified or made righteous or saved by keeping the law. This is the lesson you never learned. When Jesus walked the earth the harlots and thieves and liars all thronged about him because they knew this better than the Pharisees or law keepers. The harlots, thieves and liars are in a better state than you because they do not trust in themselves or their works of righteousness. This is all elementary to the born-again Christian but it is an enigma to the Jew who thinks he is righteous by the flesh. If you haven't figured it out in 2000 years it's not going to happen.

The law isn't the law to be 'saved, or attain salvation'. Rather it's just the (eternal) law, simple examples; incest, violence. These things are abominations regardless wether a person believes or he doesn't.

Maybe you can say the law doesnt make a person righteous but you can say anyone who trespasses it certainly does unrighteousness. Maybe not black and white like that but to a certain degree

You forget Jesus was a scholar and teacher of the Torah himself. He kept Torah since a child, example; obediance to his parents. When Jesus spoke on/to (specific) pharisees he speaks that they dont keep the Torah, being clean on the outside but dirty on the inside (parable). (Leviticus 19:17) or (Leviticus 26:41) for example proves that they who called to murder Jesus didnt keep Torah

The ten commandments is Torah and it almost includes all of the commandments in the Torah by default. Maybe the dietary laws are different(nontheless law); Noah was allowed to eat of every cattle. And second Jesus also pronounced all meats clean.

I guess my point is (really) keeping the Torah is also to be humble and upright in heart