Jesus taught existence after death

[Danoh]

Jesus answered and said to them, [JESUS]“The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”[/JESUS] Then some of the scribes answered and said, “Teacher, You have spoken well.” But after that they dared not question Him anymore. - Luke 20:34-40 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke20:34-40&version=NKJV

Did you notice what Jesus said here?

"[JESUS]nor can they die anymore[/JESUS]" (implying life after death, even before the resurrection)

"[JESUS]even Moses showed . . . that the dead ARE raised,[/JESUS]" (the dead are raised, present tense, at the time Jesus was speaking.)

"[JESUS]he called the Lord 'the God of Abraham, . . . Isaac, and . . . Jacob.'[/JESUS]" (are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob gone? just a memory? no, they are not just a memory. They still exist, because...)

"[JESUS]He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to Him.[/JESUS]" (meaning they are still alive, even though their bodies are dead, and not yet resurrected. Or do you assert that the resurrection has already happened?)jf

Good post.

But as Christ had noted concerning such...

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[clefty]

Jesus answered and said to them, [JESUS]“The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead,[/jesus]

Sadduccees didnt believe this age would occur as it would complicate things like who would the woman be married to if she kept remarrying after her husbands died...so He clarifies it

neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore,

duh because they already died the first death and were counted as worthy to attain that age

for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

yes sons of the resurrection...that age still to come...

But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised,

yup indeed they are raised at the resurrection when these fathers are raised because He is God of the living...is why He raises them...the dead are dead know nothing...

So Sadduccees are wrong...there is a resurrection...the dead are raised...at the resurrection...if the dead were automatically spirits and that was it there would be NO NEED for a resurrection...

when he called the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”[/JESUS] Then some of the scribes answered and said, “Teacher, You have spoken well.” But after that they dared not question Him anymore. - Luke 20:34-40 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke20:34-40&version=NKJV

Yup and being their God He will raise them for all indeed live to Him

Did you notice what Jesus said here?

"[JESUS]nor can they die anymore[/JESUS]" (implying life after death, even before the resurrection)

implying what?!! The dead cant die anymore...yet you must IMPLY they immediately continue to live...

Of course there is life after death...after the resurrection of the dead...not the already living

"[JESUS]even Moses showed . . . that the dead ARE raised,[/JESUS]" (the dead are raised, present tense, at the time Jesus was speaking.)

they rose at the time He said this?

What Moses showed the Sadduccees is that the resurrection age was coming...when the dead are raised

"[JESUS]he called the Lord 'the God of Abraham, . . . Isaac, and . . . Jacob.'[/JESUS]" (are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob gone? just a memory? no, they are not just a memory. They still exist, because...)

gone not at all...Abraham and Moses are even remembered in a popular folk tale...

"[JESUS]He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to Him.[/JESUS]" (meaning they are still alive, even though their bodies are dead, and not yet resurrected. Or do you assert that the resurrection has already happened?)jf

You assert the resurrection has already happened...and only half way... poor spirits fluttering about unable to eat of the tree of life...you assert man will not surely die...but live on though in spirit form...

 

[way 2 go]

so He was on Abraham’s bosom? Nothing written on that...in fact nothing written about where He was during His death...oh wait...in the tomb...

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

nope...He said His friend was dead...not a lie...you would have his friend in flames or on Abraham’s bosom...
Yahushua said Lazarus was dead...NOT on Abraham’s bosom...

absence of evidence is not evidence

you would have this for the glory of Lazarus
Joh 11:4 And hearing, Jesus said, This is not sickness to death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God be glorified by it.

nope...just as when I say Santa comes down chimneys I tell the fictitious story truthfully...

still calling Jesus a liar

Jesus said Abraham said Luk 16:25
Jesus is real Abraham is real

you said : So the story claims Abraham said that but Abraham ACTUALLY didnt...

many heard Moses and the prophets and rejected them...but HalleluYah were convinced when One rose from the dead...

calling Jesus a liar and
trying to prove Jesus lied
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

Jesus told the truth.
Joh_14:6 Jesus said to him,I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Your rejecting Moses (the torah said nothing about life after death is why sadduccees) and the prophets (the dead know nothing) and are thus contrary to sound doctrine...

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

Paul said without His resurrection all those in Him would still be perishED...not be in fire perishING...or resting on Abraham’s bosom...

Rom 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[clefty]

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol on Abraham’s bosom you are there!...or if I am tormented in flames you are there”

there...fixed it for ya...added to it what is necessary for it to say what you wish it to say...

I mean we wouldn’t want to have the poet lie...

Ironic...I mean what is more poetic than the beauty of being in Abraham’s lap...especially IF it’s the truth?

absence of evidence is not evidence

is why He didnt say His friend was on Abraham’s lap...

you would have this for the glory of Lazarus
Joh 11:4 And hearing, Jesus said, This is not sickness to death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God be glorified by it.

wut? Not at all...He was going to raise him from the dead for the glory of His Father not rescue him from deserved punishment in flames or rip him from the glory of Abraham’s bosom

still calling Jesus a liar

Jesus said Abraham said Luk 16:25
Jesus is real Abraham is real

you said : So the story claims Abraham said that but Abraham ACTUALLY didnt...

Yup a popular folk tale told to teach on forgiveness not the state of the dead...

calling Jesus a liar and
trying to prove Jesus lied
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

no see if Abraham actually said this then he lied because One did rise from the dead and convinced MANY...

Jesus told the truth.
Joh_14:6 Jesus said to him,I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Notice He didnt add by way of Abraham’s bosom...

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

Hmmm...still nothing there about flames or Abraham...

Odd that as poets are either very creative or tell the truth...

Rom 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Yup nothing seperates us from His love...not even a fictitious gulf...

oh wait Paul didnt include Abraham’s bosom...or the roaring flames...maybe since those are NOT part of all HIS creation but created by man’s traditions...they CAN seperate us from His love...

but death certainly seperates us from Him...but for a moment...come resurrection day we can love Him again...and hug and kiss Him...BODILY and not as spirits...

 

[way 2 go]

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol on Abraham’s bosom you are there!...or if I am tormented in flames you are there”

there...fixed it for ya...added to it what is necessary for it to say what you wish it to say...

I mean we wouldn’t want to have the poet lie...

Ironic...I mean what is more poetic than the beauty of being in Abraham’s lap...especially IF it’s the truth?

Luk 23:43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

you said :not even He was in paradise that day...

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

no see if Abraham actually said this then he lied because One did rise from the dead and convinced MANY...

you said :no see if Abraham actually said this then he lied because One did rise from the dead and convinced MANY...

you said : So the story claims Abraham said that but Abraham ACTUALLY didnt...

so you are saying Jesus a liar for saying Abraham said something Abraham never said
& furthermore
you are saying that Jesus is liar for saying If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'" which you believe to be a lie

your jesus lies a lot , are you a mormon or jehovahs witness ?


calling Jesus a liar and
trying to prove Jesus lied
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

Jesus told the truth.
Joh_14:6 Jesus said to him,I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

 

[clefty]

Luk 23:43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

you said :not even He was in paradise that day...

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

was said of the Immortal One the Father not the One made mortal and dead lying in the tomb...or are you saying He never died? But became a Spirit?

you said :no see if Abraham actually said this then he lied because One did rise from the dead and convinced MANY...

you said : So the story claims Abraham said that but Abraham ACTUALLY didnt...

so you are saying Jesus a liar for saying Abraham said something Abraham never said

AGAIN...nope...He was telling a popular folktale and using it not to describe the afterlife but to teach about forgiveness

& furthermore
you are saying that Jesus is liar for saying If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

so well He didn’t say that, He was telling a folktale that had Abraham saying it...

which you believe to be a lie

it is not a lie that a folk tale has Abraham saying that...

Abraham would however actually not say that because One was to raise from the dead and convince many

your jesus lies a lot , are you a mormon or jehovahs witness ?

nope YOUR jesus lies a lot for saying His friend was dead and not in the after life with Abraham or in flames...but dead...

calling Jesus a liar and
trying to prove Jesus lied
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

yup that is how the folk tale went...as if Abraham would actually say that...but now you say your jesus said it...so now your jesus is teaching contrary the gospel which is exactly One will raise from the dead and convince...

Jesus told the truth.
Joh_14:6 Jesus said to him,I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

and not by way of Abraham’s bosom...notice how He didnt include leaving Abraham’s bosom...

 

[way 2 go]

was said of the Immortal One the Father not the One made mortal and dead lying in the tomb...or are you saying He never died? But became a Spirit?

Jesus is God

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Luk 23:43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

you said :not even He was in paradise that day...

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

yup that is how the folk tale went...as if Abraham would actually say that...but now you say your jesus said it...so now your jesus is teaching contrary the gospel which is exactly One will raise from the dead and convince...

...convince them that there is a place of torment

it is ironic that the rich man wants to send Lazarus back to his brothers to convince them that there is a place of torment
but Abraham says they won't believe , like you

Luk 16:27 And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house—
Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'

 

[clefty]

Jesus is God

sure...and what? He went to Abraham’s bosom?...hmmmn...seems like a nice place...why the agony? Why the despair His Father was abandoning Him? I mean He was just going to Abraham’s bosom no?

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Luk 23:43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

you said :not even He was in paradise that day...

there is no evidence He was in paradise that day...but the theif was promised that day he would be in paradise...you know since there were no punctuations...

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

was said of His Father not Him...and especially not during His time as human...

...convince them that there is a place of torment

it is ironic that the rich man wants to send Lazarus back to his brothers to convince them that there is a place of torment
but Abraham says they won't believe , like you

right because Moses and the Prophets did not speak of a place of torment...forever flames...or Abraham’s bosom

Not even Abraham said anything according to Moses...

Luk 16:27 And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house—
Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'

imagine that...

so opposed to the idea of a place of torment in the after life are they that even one risen from the dead couldn’t sway them from sticking to what Moses and the prophets taught...

In other words even for the 5 brothers it remains Scripture > man’s traditions and folk tales...or one risen from the dead...as if one risen from the dead would teach that...

Not a peep from all those who were risen from the dead...notice that?

 

[way 2 go]

sure...and what? He went to Abraham’s bosom?...hmmmn...seems like a nice place...why the agony? Why the despair His Father was abandoning Him? I mean He was just going to Abraham’s bosom no?

being crucified and paying for the wolds sin

there is no evidence He was in paradise that day...but the theif was promised that day he would be in paradise...you know since there were no punctuations...

only your conjecture that the criminal was not in paradise with God that day

God said it, you are not convinced .

Luk 23:43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

was said of His Father not Him...and especially not during His time as human...

God

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

right because Moses and the Prophets did not speak of a place of torment...forever flames...or Abraham’s bosom

Not even Abraham said anything according to Moses...

Jesus is risen from the dead you should be convinced by him that there is a place of torment
but you are not convinced just like Jesus said of the people who do not hear Moses and the Prophets

Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

imagine that...

so opposed to the idea of a place of torment in the after life are they that even one risen from the dead couldn’t sway them from sticking to what Moses and the prophets taught...

In other words even for the 5 brothers it remains Scripture > man’s traditions and folk tales...or one risen from the dead...as if one risen from the dead would teach that...

Not a peep from all those who were risen from the dead...notice that?

what I do notice is you are not convinced of existence after physical death
like Jesus said you would not be
so if Jesus & the prophets do not convince you I'm certainly not going to
be able to convince you of existence after physical death
so :carryon:

Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

 

[clefty]

being crucified and paying for the wolds sin

He didnt say that did He?

His agony was the seperation from His Father...you know the being dead part...not hanging out on Abraham’s bosom...

only your conjecture that the criminal was not in paradise with God that day

God said it, you are not convinced .

by the punctuationing of it by translator’s with a biased agenda...to say what you wish it to say when what was actually written was:

Luk 23:43 And he said to him Truly I say to you today you will be with me in Paradise

God

Psa 139:7 Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence?
Psa 139:8 If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

right again...said of the Father not His Son in human form lying in the tomb like His friend Lazarus who also didnt go anywhere after death/while dead...

Jesus is risen from the dead you should be convinced by him that there is a place of torment
but you are not convinced just like Jesus said of the people who do not hear Moses and the Prophets

I believe in resurrection but since Moses and the prophets didnt teach place of torment than why would He teach it...He didnt He told a folk tale...a popular one like Santa Claus...

Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

what I do notice is you are not convinced of existence after physical death

you missed I am convinced of existence after physical death...after resurrection day in physical bodies even...

like Jesus said you would not be

um He didnt say that He said Abraham said that...

so if Jesus & the prophets do not convince you I'm certainly not going to
be able to convince you of existence after physical death

again He and the prophets taught existence after physical death...just neither taught eternal torment

so :carryon:

ok

Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

Yup that is the popular folk tale...told not to teach on the state of the dead but about forgiveness...

Obviously or else He would have said His friend was on Abraham’s bosom...He didnt but told the truth...Lazarus was dead...nothing about being on Abraham’s bosom...

 

[Hawkins]

Jesus taught existence after physical death

Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
Luk 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’

Abraham, Lazarus and The rich man all dead Physically.

The rich man is also dead spiritually and in the place of the dead. Rev 20:13

There is:
1 spiritual death Mat 8:22
2 physical death Mat 8:22
3 death as a place Rev 20:13

It's all about concepts back then. A parable is the use of common concepts to illustrate a less obvious point of view. Back in Jesus' days, Pharisaic concepts were the most influential among the Jews. They include the concepts of immortal soul, eternal hell, Hades/Sheol and Lake of Fire. They are common concepts and are easily understood by the Jews for Jesus to use them to illustrate a point.

If on the other hand those concepts are wrong, Jesus should have corrected them instead of making use of them to convey His opinions. He actually endorsed the Pharisaic teachings by saying that,

Matthew 23:3 (NIV2011)
So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

What the Pharisees preached isn't an issue, only their deeds are an issue.

Here's how Jewish historian Josephus, who was a Pharisee, tried to explain what Hades/sheol is to the Greek.

Hades is a place in the world not regularly finished; a subterraneous region, wherein the light of this world does not shine; from which circumstance, that in this region the light does not shine, it cannot be but there must be in it perpetual darkness. This region is allotted as a place of custody for souls, ill which angels are appointed as guardians to them, who distribute to them temporary punishments, agreeable to every one's behavior and manners. In this region there is a certain place set apart, as a lake of unquenchable fire...

 

[way 2 go]

by the punctuationing of it by translator’s with a biased agenda...to say what you wish it to say when what was actually written was:

Luk 23:43 And he said to him Truly I say to you today you will be with me in Paradise

conjecture :yawn:

link to post 91 115

Truly, I say to you, punctuated at least 70 times like this esv
I say unto you, punctuated at least 120 times like this kjv
Luk_23:43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

I believe in resurrection but since Moses and the prophets didnt teach place of torment than why would He teach it...He didnt He told a folk tale...a popular one like Santa Claus...

so you don't believe Moses and the prophets, neither did the rich man

Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

you missed I am convinced of existence after physical death...after resurrection day in physical bodies even...

I am convinced Jesus taught the continued existence of spirits after death

Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

um He didnt say that He said Abraham said that...

Jesus said it

again He and the prophets taught existence after physical death...just neither taught eternal torment
ok

yes, Jesus taught the continued existence of spirits after death

 

[clefty]

conjecture :yawn:

link to post 91 115

Truly, I say to you, punctuated at least 70 times like this esv
I say unto you, punctuated at least 120 times like this kjv
Luk_23:43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."



so you don't believe Moses and the prophets, neither did the rich man

Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"



I am convinced Jesus taught the continued existence of spirits after death

Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.


Jesus said it


yes, Jesus taught the continued existence of spirits after death

You would have Him lying here for not clarifying she was NOT dead but on Abraham’s bosom...

Luke 8:51 When he arrived at the house of Jairus, he did not let anyone go in with him except Peter, John and James, and the child’s father and mother. 52 Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. “Stop wailing,” Jesus said. “She is not dead but asleep.”

53 They laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. 54 But he took her by the hand and said, “My child, get up!” 55 Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat. 56 Her parents were astonished, but he ordered them not to tell anyone what had happened.“

So her spirit returned from Abraham’s bosom or from flames of fire...and yet what does He say?

And then asked nothing be said...

Imagine the testimony of her account on Abraham’s bosom next to Lazarus...

Or...burning in fire...

Is there anywhere her account?

No because she was dead...Her spirit returned to her Creator no where else...

 

[JudgeRightly]

You would have Him lying here for not clarifying she was NOT dead but on Abraham’s bosom...

Luke 8:51 When he arrived at the house of Jairus, he did not let anyone go in with him except Peter, John and James, and the child’s father and mother. 52 Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. “Stop wailing,” Jesus said. “She is not dead but asleep.”

53 They laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. 54 But he took her by the hand and said, “My child, get up!” 55 Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat. 56 Her parents were astonished, but he ordered them not to tell anyone what had happened.“

So her spirit returned from Abraham’s bosom or from flames of fire...and yet what does He say?

And then asked nothing be said...

Imagine the testimony of her account on Abraham’s bosom next to Lazarus...

Or...burning in fire...

Is there anywhere her account?

No because she was dead...Her spirit returned to her Creator no where else...

Why couldn't Lazarus be both dead AND on Abraham's bosom?

 

[way 2 go]

You would have Him lying here for not clarifying she was NOT dead but on Abraham’s bosom...

Luke 8:51 When he arrived at the house of Jairus, he did not let anyone go in with him except Peter, John and James, and the child’s father and mother. 52 Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. “Stop wailing,” Jesus said. “She is not dead but asleep.”

53 They laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. 54 But he took her by the hand and said, “My child, get up!” 55 Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat. 56 Her parents were astonished, but he ordered them not to tell anyone what had happened.“

So her spirit returned from Abraham’s bosom or from flames of fire...and yet what does He say?

And then asked nothing be said...

Imagine the testimony of her account on Abraham’s bosom next to Lazarus...

Or...burning in fire...

Is there anywhere her account?

No because she was dead...Her spirit returned to her Creator no where else...

Her spirit had separated from her body and continued to
exist and we know this because Her spirit returned to her.

:yawn:

so you don't believe Moses and the prophets, neither did the rich man

Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

 

[clefty]

Why couldn't Lazarus be both dead AND on Abraham's bosom?

Ask Him...He just said His friend Lazarus was dead...if it was true he was on Abraham’s bosom that would have provided real comfort...but well He didn’t because it’s not true...Lazarus was dead...still in the tomb...

Stinking...

Just like if we were to unbury the graves the corpses and bones would still be there NOT CARRIED BODILY TO ABRHAHAM’S BOSOM

 

[JudgeRightly]

Ask Him...He just said His friend Lazarus was dead...if it was true he was on Abraham’s bosom that would have provided real comfort...but well He didn’t because it’s not true...Lazarus was dead...still in the tomb...

Stinking...

Just like if we were to unbury the graves the corpses and bones would still be there NOT CARRIED BODILY TO ABRHAHAM’S BOSOM

Is there any reason why Lazarus couldn't be in both places at the same time? Both in the grave (his body) and on Abraham's bosom (his soul/spirit)?

 

[clefty]

Her spirit had separated from her body and continued to
exist and we know this because Her spirit returned to her.

right covered that...

No testimony of having GONE ANYWHERE from her...odd that...imagine the draw...but NOTHING

Because her spirit returned from the Giver...that’s where it went to...not flames or Abraham’s bosom...

Ecc 12:7

and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Luke 23:46
Then Jesus called out in a loud voice, "Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit." And when He had said this, He breathed His last.

Acts 7:59
While they were stoning him, Stephen appealed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."

Job 34:14
If He were to set His heart to it and withdraw His Spirit and breath,

Job 34:15
all flesh would perish together and mankind would return to the dust.

Nothing there about spirits headed to Abraham’s bosom...or actually being carried bodily...LOL

:yawn:

so you don't believe Moses and the prophets, neither did the rich man

Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'
Luk 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.'
Luk 16:30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
Luk 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"

I do believe Moses and the prophets who DID NOT teach about eternal flames burning spirit tongues...is why He said His friend was dead and that was true...DEAD...not on Abraham’s bosom or else He would have said that...

 

[clefty]

Is there any reason why Lazarus couldn't be in both places at the same time? Both in the grave (his body) and on Abraham's bosom (his soul/spirit)?

Well the folk tale says Lazarus was carried bodily...so ask the authors of the folk tale...

Oh and because that is not what Moses or the prophets taught...despite what the folk tale says...

 

[JudgeRightly]

Well the folk tale says Lazarus was carried bodily...so ask the authors of the folk tale...

Oh and because that is not what Moses or the prophets taught...despite what the folk tale says...

So you're saying it's impossible to separate body and soul/spirit from each other? That they remain together even after death?