Jesus, Paul and the Gospel

[Lon]

"But woe unto you scribes, Pharisees (Calvinist) hypocrites! for you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for you neither go in yourselves, neither suffer you them that are entering to go in" Matthew 23:13.

2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.　

:nono: I didn't have a problem with your OP. As far as "how" one calls on Christ, it is not as important as 'that' they called and for me: He called (you said the same thing, that you couldn't see how anyone could resist Him). So, there are a few cart/horse disagreements, and they don't bother me as long as there is both a horse and a cart. In this case: Jesus Saves. All who call on Him are saved.
2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.　
A new creation does new creation things Ephesians 2:10 The old has passed away. Discussion about 'works' is what a new nature does. If you have it, you are saved. If you don't, no amount of 'follow Christ' or 'do what He says' can work. If you ARE a new creation, it is about like having someone tell you to breathe, it doesn't make sense. A friend of mine qualified for the Boston Marathon. She had to learn to breath by a coach. It wasn't that she wasn't breathing, it was just that she had to change it to qualify for the Marathon. We can encourage one another in Christ. Any talk of works, aside from that, I don't believe, is in our hands (again Ephesians 2:10).

Does either the Calvinist or the Sola Fide Sola Gratia person of faith (MAD or other), have a disagreement? Does this explanation alleviate any discussion? To me, it seems to take the edge off of it, if not ends it altogether. I'd appreciate input and concerns as I work toward something I believe is meaningful and uniting in our faith. Thanks -Lon

 

[Nick M]

Forgive me?

Not needed.

 

[daqq]

You are implying that Paul was blind? Paul was especially chosen by Jesus to take the Gospel to the Gentiles. And you have the nerve to say that Paul was blind. Paul had more insight into the Gospel than all of the other apostles put together. To discredit Paul is to discredit Jesus, who chose Paul to be an apostle. You have a serious unbelief problem.

Again you only reveal how blind you really are by thinking I was speaking of Paul just because I quoted his words. Paul's words were quoted to show you that you have no clue what you are talking about. It is your own pride that blinds you from even thinking of the possibility that I might be speaking of you instead of Paul. It is not Paul who is blind: it is you. Can I make it any more plain than that? If you cannot even understand such simple things then how is it you imagine yourself to be a teacher? You either did not read what I posted or you are really, really, terribly, spiritually blind. It is horrifying how blind you are.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Coming from the Guy that mocks Atonement and the Virgin Birth... I don't think I or [MENTION=9508]Robert Pate[/MENTION] are concerned by one letter you type.

# Toodles

Does Dagg also reject the virgin birth?

I know he rejects this--

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Me thinks Daqq is an unconverted Jew.

LA

 

[daqq]

Does Dagg also reject the virgin birth?

I know he rejects this--

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Me thinks Daqq is an unconverted Jew.

LA

Lol, you show your own true colors by trying to get revenge for being shown to be in error by way of the scripture. It is not me you are actually despising but rather the Word which refutes you to your face. You are only cursing yourself for not believing what is written: and now you are running around spreading false reports and bearing false witness all because of your selfish perverted desire to exact a vendetta when even that is rejecting Elohim, (who plainly says that vengeance belongs to Him). You show yourself to be unwashed, with eyes lifted up in pride, (Prov 30:11-14), so anything you might say about atonement is already shown to likely be in error just by way of your very own actions and deeds. Anyone can quote a passage of scripture but if you do not understand what it means then your posting it is really meaningless to anything you happen to say along with it. I believe everything written but that does not mean I agree with what you say it means when you post it: how hard can that be to understand? I suppose it might be difficult for one such as yourself, when you imagine yourself to have full understanding of everything, being the all-knowing one you must imagine yourself to be. But unfortunately for you, you do not have the actions and deeds to back up the faith you claim to hold, dear killer, and the epistle of James plainly says that even the demons believe, and shudder.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Lol, you show your own true colors by trying to get revenge for being shown to be in error by way of the scripture. It is not me you are actually despising but rather the Word which refutes you to your face. You are only cursing yourself for not believing what is written: and now you are running around spreading false reports and bearing false witness all because of your selfish perverted desire to exact a vendetta when even that is rejecting Elohim, (who plainly says that vengeance belongs to Him). You show yourself to be unwashed, with eyes lifted up in pride, (Prov 30:11-14), so anything you might say about atonement is already shown to likely be in error just by way of your very own actions and deeds. Anyone can quote a passage of scripture but if you do not understand what it means then your posting it is really meaningless to anything you happen to say along with it. I believe everything written but that does not mean I agree with what you say it means when you post it: how hard can that be to understand? I suppose it might be difficult for one such as yourself, when you imagine yourself to have full understanding of everything, being the all-knowing one you must imagine yourself to be. But unfortunately for you, you do not have the actions and deeds to back up the faith you claim to hold, dear killer, and the epistle of James plainly says that even the demons believe, and shudder.

So you can not confess that Jesus was without blemish and that men are redeemed by the blood of Christ.

now you can not confess Mary was a virgin when she conceived of the Holy Spirit.

What sort of a supposed Christian are you?

You are a fake who has learnt things only the saved learn after they are saved. You are not.

LA

 

[CherubRam]

In regards to the LAW. The biblical laws are all ran together, however there are two sets of laws. All of the Old Testament laws have been done away with under the New Covenant; except for the Sabbath and moral commands of God. That is the reason for all of the confusion. There is scriptures that affirm what I have said. It would have been nice if some one would have made that know before I came along.

 

[Robert Pate]

In regards to the LAW. The biblical laws are all ran together, however there are two sets of laws. All of the Old Testament laws have been done away with under the New Covenant; except for the Sabbath and moral commands of God. That is the reason for all of the confusion. There is scriptures that affirm what I have said. It would have been nice if some one would have made that know before I came along.

I have bad news for you.

Anything in the Bible that tells you to do something or not to do something is law. The law covers every aspect of ones life, from the time that they are born, until the day that they die.

 

[daqq]

I have bad news for you.

Anything in the Bible that tells you to do something or not to do something is law. The law covers every aspect of ones life, from the time that they are born, until the day that they die.

Bad news for you: Paul commands all sorts of things to do and not to do, and some of them he even mentions while saying that if you walk in the Spirit and are led by the Spirit you are not "under the law", as in the following passage:

Galatians 5:16-21 KJV
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

That sure does appear to be a wholelotta things not to do; and if you do them, you will not inherit the kingdom of Elohim. Are you saying Paul is wrong about these things? Are you saying that Paul should not be telling us what to do or not to do? It sure seems to me that you are preaching some other different itching ears gospel. And as for things Paul says to do:

Romans 8:12-14 KJV
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Mortify or put to death the deeds of the body. That sure sounds like "the works of the flesh" in the previous passage, (Gal 5:19-21), don't you think? And again:

Colossians 3:5-10 KJV
5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

So how long in your walk in the Spirit did it take you to put off the old man with his deeds? (and please remember what the beginning of that statement says too: lie not to one another, lol), and how long have you been in the pristine state you are now in, not being under any of these things which Paul commands you to do or not to do? Or are you suggesting that everything was already done for you the moment you first belieeeeved? Just to be clear, from just these three passages so far, here is the list of things to do and not to do:

Through the Spirit mortify or put to death the deeds of the body, (and you shall live), and mortify or put to death your members which are upon the earth: the lust of the flesh, adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like, (of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of Elohim), inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry; anger, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth: lie not one to another, (seeing that you have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him).

Are you going to tell me I am wrong for believing these things?

 

[CherubRam]

I have bad news for you.

Anything in the Bible that tells you to do something or not to do something is law. The law covers every aspect of ones life, from the time that they are born, until the day that they die.

I am speaking of the Mosaic laws that govern the sacrifices, festivals, circumcision, and other Sabbath Days. Those things and the old priesthood have been done away with. What remains is the Seventh Day Sabbath and the moral commands of God.

 

[Zeke]

So you can not confess that Jesus was without blemish and that men are redeemed by the blood of Christ.

now you can not confess Mary was a virgin when she conceived of the Holy Spirit.

What sort of a supposed Christian are you?

You are a fake who has learnt things only the saved learn after they are saved. You are not.

LA

Mary is a type of the Jerusalem Above the mother of all divine seeds that descend into flesh. Ponder Matt 11:11 which shows that John was a type of the earthy man born of flesh looking outside for a inward remedy.

 

[Robert Pate]

I am speaking of the Mosaic laws that govern the sacrifices, festivals, circumcision, and other Sabbath Days. Those things and the old priesthood have been done away with. What remains is the Seventh Day Sabbath and the moral commands of God.

Nothing remains, the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. The New Covenant is Jesus Christ, Hebrews chapters 8, 9, 10.

 

[CherubRam]

Nothing remains, the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. The New Covenant is Jesus Christ, Hebrews chapters 8, 9, 10.

The word "enmity" means "hostility."


Ephesians 2:15King James Version (KJV)

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

 

[Robert Pate]

The word "enmity" means "hostility."


Ephesians 2:15King James Version (KJV)

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Human nature is hostile towards God and his law. Where there is no law there is no hostility. Where there is no law there is no judgment. This is why Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness. The law never made anyone righteous. What it made them is hostile.

 

[CherubRam]

Human nature is hostile towards God and his law. Where there is no law there is no hostility. Where there is no law there is no judgment. This is why Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness. The law never made anyone righteous. What it made them is hostile.

And what about God's commandments?

 

[Robert Pate]

And what about God's commandments?

God's commandments are the law. Anything in the Bible that tells us what to do or what not to do is law.

Paul said that the law made him want to sin, Romans 7:7-12.