JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[Lon]

Revealing your true heart now Lon.

You say non RCC Trinitarians are damned to hell.

1) This is your thread (Arians). I didn't start it.
2) Is it your opinion that one who cuts his bible up and disbelieves portions of it, is damned to hell?
3) Did I mention hell? :idunno:

You can not even read the truth without twisting it.

Shame on you.

LA

I just said twisting scripture was wrong :doh:

 

[Lon]

Elohiym means (God of the Living) or(gods of the living.) It means that they have, or will have life immortal. It has nothing to do with super natural abilities.

Being a god doesn't mean you can move mountains? :think:

I am a creation.

 

[Lon]

I don't believe that the JW who came to your door told you he could read Greek. I would assume that he was trying to tell you the same thing I'm trying to tell you. No wonder he was "angry"---I would sooner say he was frustrated. I also don't believe that he called you names. We are admonished over and over to never do that.

It is VERY sad when someone tries to correct what I know to be true. You'd rather defend lies than admit one of your own lied.

Therefore, I would like to call you an idiot but I will refrain from doing so.

Weren't you the one that told me you had 29k Greeks that 'could read Koine Greek?'
Interesting you would call me an idiot.... I'd not mention that. Ignorant can be cured. Idiot and one is fairly stuck. I try not to use that word.

I KNOW that there are no indefinite articles in Greek. So, according to the rules of translating Greek into English, if there is no article in front of a word that means that it is one of many. "Snoopy is a dog" is the English way of saying that fact. A Greek would write in Greek, "Snoopy is dog." No indefinite article. That way they know and understand that Snoopy is one of many. If they wanted to say that Snoopy was the ONLY dog they would use a definite article with "dog." It would literally be, "Snoopy is the dog."

No. "IF" you have no good reason for adding a word (and this is what we are talking about) then NO word should be added.
I've heard a few scholars say differently but they are wrong. If you CHANGE the meaning of a sentence by adding a word, you've done wrong. See here. John could have made 'a' clear if that is what he intended.
Be informed and not so self-assured at what you think you know. Your JW group has misled you.

So in John 1:1 we have, "in the beginning was the word and the word was with the god, and the word was god." A Greek reading this would know that "the word was god" doesn't have the definite article, so it is one of many. To adhere to the rules for translating Greek to English, translators, as well as the Greek speaking person, would include the indefinite article "a" so that it makes sense in English.

You really don't understand the protocol for translating Greek into proper English.

Yeah, I do. I disagree with those men, some of them who know Greek. They are wrong. Here is the rule: If you are translating, and your 'addition' changes the meaning of the sentence, you are WRONG for doing so. "God was the Word" IS the clear word for word translation.

Just think. Stop emoting over a group of people who are unworthy of your defense. Champion God first and before all this.

 

[Lon]

Oh give up, Lon. It looks as though your blindness will not be corrected any time soon, and those of us who already see are surely not going to be influenced by your distorted thinking. Tell me, where does it say that Jesus "took on the form of himself"? What version are YOU using? That doesn't even make sense. If he was in the form of something, how can he TAKE ON that form that he ALREADY had? The main one here that I can see who is "messing up and disbelieving" God's words to their eternal shame is you.

:doh: Read for content. Listen to Nih,

You're wrong.

 

[daqq]

I give both sides of this credit for having both strong passages in their position's favor, and for passages that form a powerful challenge to their position. To divide the sea on this one, I went to history books. The earliest Church was without question unambiguously quote-unquote Trinitarian. The reason for the quotes is because before the Arian controversy, believing in the Trinity was the same as believing in the Resurrection; that is, it was Christian, it was the One Church who believed the One Christian faith (Eph4:5KJV).

Today we know that this same Church then is the Catholic Church. That is of course not without massive dispute.
Then those who hold to the Holy Catholic faith are those who bow in His name, if I am right. What you are trying to prove is that there are exceedingly few Christians today who bow in His name, and I challenge that view, specifically with Holy Catholicism as the counter.
Not the same. No pope is to the level of the Lord Jesus, He is the pantocrator, the Master of the Universe; both heaven and earth (Mt28:18-19KJV).
See above. If I'm right, then according to you, those who believe the Catholic faith are the only people today who bow in His name, since Catholic teaching in the matters of faith and morals is the One Church's infallible teaching on these matters. If I'm right.
Whereas I simply believe that what Paul unambiguously wrote is true, "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."

Paul explains that believing in Him, is believing in the Resurrection, they are the same.

You do believe that the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the third day, right Daqq? I believe that you do, but you never answered me.

Nope. Believing that the Master was raised from the dead means that you truly believe every word he spoke which words are recorded for you in the Gospel accounts, (and the Apocalypse). Anyone who does not believe, adhere to, and practice those words and teachings in uprightness and truth does not truly believe that he was raised from the dead. The same is true of Paul; when he had his own encounter with Messiah on the way to Damascus you bet your life he then truly believed, and it changed him and his doctrine forever. Belief according to the scripture does not mean the same as what that word has come to mean to people in today's cheap easy believism of the modern mainstream, (especially in the drive-up window minded the west).

 

[Lon]

I'm going to bow out of this thread shortly. I don't want to get to where this always becomes contentious but did want to post
enough in thread that others can read for context why contention exists as well as point all people to scriptures.

There is a reason why those of us who are triune, are triune (Trinitarian).

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I'm going to bow out of this thread shortly. I don't want to get to where this always becomes contentious but did want to post
enough in thread that others can read for context why contention exists as well as point all people to scriptures.

There is a reason why those of us who are triune, are triune (Trinitarian).

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

 

[Lon]

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Good note to leave on: It is 'why' I am triune. We agree that this scripture is true. How is it possible? Good question. :think:

 

[Nihilo]

Nope. Believing that the Master was raised from the dead means that you truly believe every word he spoke which words are recorded for you in the Gospel accounts, (and the Apocalypse). Anyone who does not believe, adhere to, and practice those words and teachings in uprightness and truth does not truly believe that he was raised from the dead. The same is true of Paul; when he had his own encounter with Messiah on the way to Damascus you bet your life he then truly believed, and it changed him and his doctrine forever. Belief according to the scripture does not mean the same as what that word has come to mean to people in today's cheap easy believism of the modern mainstream, (especially in the drive-up window minded the west).

Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the third day Daqq? Or not?

I can see that you don't like where things are headed. Just please answer the question though?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the third day Daqq? Or not?

I can see that you don't like where things are headed. Just please answer the question though?

Daqq sounds just about as stubborn as GT or Truster.

 

[Nihilo]

Daqq sounds just about as stubborn as GT or Truster.

I'm stubborner than any of them; we're kindred spirits.

 

[daqq]

Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the third day Daqq? Or not?

I can see that you don't like where things are headed. Just please answer the question though?

Yes, I do.

And now it is your turn to answer my question so that I may know whether or not you truly believe that the Master rose from the dead the third day. Do you or do you not believe all of his Testimony found in the commonly accepted Gospel accounts beginning with the following statements which have already been posted herein:

It is very simple, the Anointed one says that he himself is not the Logos:

John 12:48 W/H
48 ο αθετων εμε και μη λαμβανων τα ρηματα μου εχει τον κρινοντα αυτον ο λογος ον ελαλησα εκεινος κρινει αυτον εν τη εσχατη ημερα
48 The one rejecting me, and not receiving my words, has one who judges him: the Logos which I have spoken, that one shall judge him in the last day.

The Father judges no one, (John 5:22)
The Anointed one judges no one, (John 8:15, 12:47)
The Logos-Word is the Son: the Seeker and the Judge, (John 5:22, 8:50, 12:48).
No one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, (John 1:18a, 1John 4:12a).

Please remember:

Believing that the Master was raised from the dead means that you truly believe every word he spoke which words are recorded for you in the Gospel accounts, (and the Apocalypse). Anyone who does not believe, adhere to, and practice those words and teachings in uprightness and truth does not truly believe that he was raised from the dead.

 

[daqq]

Daqq sounds just about as stubborn as GT or Truster.

You call it stubborn.
I call it adhering to the Testimony of Messiah, (speaking only for myself).

 

[daqq]

Daqq sounds just about as stubborn as GT or Truster.

I'm stubborner than any of them; we're kindred spirits.

And here is another critical statement from the Master for both of you:

John 14:24 Textus Recptus
24 ο μη αγαπων με τους λογους μου ου τηρει και ο λογος ον ακουετε ουκ εστιν εμος αλλα του πεμψαντος με πατρος

John 14:24 KJV
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word [Logos] which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 14:24 Westcott-Hort
24 ο μη αγαπων με τους λογους μου ου τηρει και ο λογος ον ακουετε ουκ εστιν εμος αλλα του πεμψαντος με πατρος

John 14:24 ASV
24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word [Logos] which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

"The one not loving me does not keep my words: and the Logos which you hear is not my own, but is the Father's who sent me."

And now let us add the previous John 12:48 statement:

"The one rejecting me, and not receiving my words, has one who judges him: the Logos which I have spoken, that one shall judge him in the last day."

"The one not loving me does not keep my words: and the Logos which you hear is not my own, but is the Father's who sent me."

And these are only two statements: there are so many more to go!
Rightly Divide, O lovers of the Truth, so that we may know you truly believe. :chuckle:

 

[KingdomRose]

Technically, you're correct, there are no indefinite articles in Greek.

However, there is something called the Granville Sharp rule, which has been proved many times over in Greek.

It states: "When the copulative*kai connects two*nouns*of the same*case, if the article*ho, or any of its cases, precedes the first of the said nouns or participles, and is not repeated before the second noun or participle, the latter always relates to the same person that is expressed or described by the first noun or participle."

Blah blah blah.....I stand by what I said in my post.:blabla:

 

[KingdomRose]

Do you mean like having all power in heaven and earth given to him?

Of course "all power in heaven and on earth" is RELATIVE, because no one could ever have the same power or MORE power than the Father.

 

[KingdomRose]

An non-Apostolic interpretation of Sacred Scripture is not authoritative. :idunno:

What on earth is that big stomach doing there that's in your avatar?

 

[Nihilo]

What on earth is that big stomach doing there that's in your avatar?

It's just settin' there.

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?124950-Foul/page2&p=5021604#post5021604

 

[CherubRam]

What on earth is that big stomach doing there that's in your avatar?

His great big ole hairy belly was hanging out she said. Lol.

 

[keypurr]

Wouldn't you appreciate a return in the favor?



Correct, it is always a response. I do, however, apologize for Freedimbulb. I don't generally do name-calling. I was trying to get people to realize "YHWH means Father" is wrong and the confidence and posturing comment couldn't bolster that it was completely wrong. If Unitarians are going to have a thread, that point was incredibly important for NEEDED correction. On top of that, if I don't say some things strongly, they go over heads and then you think "my comment stands." It was/is very important, for this thread, that all were corrected in their thinking because of the thread title. YHWH is not translated Father. YHWH is translated God. It was/is an important and stark contrast that needed clear correction.


I realize you don't esteem scripture as God's word as I do, but can you think of ANY scripture that tells us to correct those who need it and show they are correctable as well as oppose those who preach what is different and opposed to us? One scripture? Am I to be faithful to God?


You are often wrong. When it is so bad that it changes the direction of this thread on a point that is completely wrong, I may be around to say something.

YHWH does not mean "Father." YHWH is translated "God."

All that schooling and you don't even know that YHWH is a name.

Goes to prove that the schools are bias.

You should have studied Aramaic instead of Greek.