Jesus is God
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Christ and Jesus are one and the same.
I just met you and you start shooting machine guns
Just like the other Paul!!! :chuckle:
oly::sherlock:
Paul
keypurr
Well-known member
NOW, yes. But before they were not. Jesus was born millions of years after Christ was created.
God's Truth
New member
In the Old Testament, God calls HIMSELF THE FIRST AND THE LAST. That is exactly what Jesus calls himself in Revelation!
Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.
JESUS calls HIMSELF the FIRST and the LAST in Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
Read Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
Jesus calls himself the SAME EXACT name that God calls Himself. So then, why do you have a problem with my calling Jesus God?
Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.
JESUS calls HIMSELF the FIRST and the LAST in Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
Read Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
Jesus calls himself the SAME EXACT name that God calls Himself. So then, why do you have a problem with my calling Jesus God?
keypurr
Well-known member
All things come from the Father through Christ. Christ is the express image of the Father, Christ is firstborn of all creatures. He is spirit like his Father, given the fullness of the Father, yet, he can die on a cross for us. Christ is a form of God, not God. He took the form of man to make his Father known to us. He is a servant of his Father who is his God and our God.
Posted from the TOL App!
keypurr
Well-known member
Your posted history shows that you do not prove all things friend. Christ is firstborn of all creatures. He is the Father's servant son. Christ came and lived in the body that God provided for him. You have been misled for Jesus Christ himself tells you that there is only one true God and you do not listen to him. If you do not pay attention to him you will not listen to me either.
Posted from the TOL App!
God's Truth
New member
You speak a lot of untruth. For one, we are not friends. For another, I do prove all my beliefs with scripture.
God created Himself a physical body; He did this before the creation of anything else. This body with His Spirit is Jesus Christ.
God calls Himself a Son when He speaks of Jesus because Jesus came forth from Him, from the unapproachable light. We call what comes forth from us our sons and daughters. However, it does not make Jesus any less God.
You make two separate Sons. You make a Son named Christ and a Son named Jesus. You reject the truth and all correction.
You refuse to humble yourself now and admit you might be wrong. Hopefully, you will be able to humble yourself after this life when you are exposed of your falseness.
Aimiel
Well-known member
To pay attention to Him is the focus of those who actually believe in Him.
Revelation 22: 6 - 13
I am the Alpha and the Omega.
This is referenced to Revelation 1:8. But Revelation 1:8 is talking about The Almighty, Revelation 22:12 is not using this title for Jesus but for God again. If we read Revelation 22:6 it tells us who the subject is, "The Lord, the God of prophetic spirits." Jesus does say in Revelation 1:17 that, "I am the first and the last." We will examine what he meant by that statement.
Just because the same title is used to describe two people does not mean that those two people are one. David called King Saul "My Lord " but that does not make Saul God (1 Samuel 24:9).
Israel’s Judges were called "saviors" but that does not make them and Jesus one person? (Nehemiah 9:27).
Jeroboam the Second of Israel is called "Israel’s savior," but that does not make him Jesus? (2 Kings 13:5)
Before we discuss these verses it would benefit us to understand John’s view of God.
Examples:
John 17:3
"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
Revelation 1:6
"Who (Jesus) has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father."
John 20:17
"But go to my brothers and tell them, "I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."
In these verses John does not consider Jesus to be God in any way. For John, Jesus has a God. John also does not believe Jesus to be omniscient even after his resurrected state.
Revelation 1:1 says:
"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him."
Even after his resurrection Jesus is not omniscient. God still gives him revelations. Emphasis on God gives him. Now we will look at Revelation 1:17 with the correct background of John’s thinking, and not with a mind set on making Jesus God at all costs.
It is obvious that God Almighty is the first and the last, but how is Jesus also the first and the last? Jesus is the first because he is the firstborn in two ways. One, he is the firstborn of God, which to the Jews implied that as the firstborn you are entitled to be the heir of your father, which Jesus is (Hebrews 1:2). Also according to Strong’s Greek Dictionary it means foremost in importance, which Jesus certainly is. This also corresponds with Psalms 89: 28 - 30.
Secondly, Jesus is the firstborn from the dead to be resurrected, which is what Jesus is speaking about in Revelation 1:18 which follows his statement that he is the first and the last. It reads:
"I am the first and the last, the one who lives. Once I was dead, but now I am alive forever."
This is also is in agreement with Colossians 1: 18. Jesus is the last because when he comes again it will be the end of the present age, and he will be in effect the last one to enter this world while it is still under the influence of Satan. He will then usher in the Messianic kingdom of God.
You can not be God and then claim to have one as Jesus clearly teaches He Has!!!
Jesus has a GOD... and your traditions of men can not explain why!!! :readthis:
oly::sherlock: Paul
God's Truth
New member
Revelation 22: 6 - 13
I am the Alpha and the Omega.
This is referenced to Revelation 1:8. But Revelation 1:8 is talking about The Almighty, Revelation 22:12 is not using this title for Jesus but for God again. If we read Revelation 22:6 it tells us who the subject is, "The Lord, the God of prophetic spirits." Jesus does say in Revelation 1:17 that, "I am the first and the last." We will examine what he meant by that statement.
Just because the same title is used to describe two people does not mean that those two people are one. David called King Saul "My Lord " but that does not make Saul God (1 Samuel 24:9).
Israel’s Judges were called "saviors" but that does not make them and Jesus one person? (Nehemiah 9:27).
Jeroboam the Second of Israel is called "Israel’s savior," but that does not make him Jesus? (2 Kings 13:5)
Before we discuss these verses it would benefit us to understand John’s view of God.
Examples:
John 17:3
"Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
Revelation 1:6
"Who (Jesus) has made us into a kingdom, priests for his God and Father."
John 20:17
"But go to my brothers and tell them, "I am going to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."
In these verses John does not consider Jesus to be God in any way. For John, Jesus has a God. John also does not believe Jesus to be omniscient even after his resurrected state.
Revelation 1:1 says:
"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him."
Even after his resurrection Jesus is not omniscient. God still gives him revelations. Emphasis on God gives him. Now we will look at Revelation 1:17 with the correct background of John’s thinking, and not with a mind set on making Jesus God at all costs.
It is obvious that God Almighty is the first and the last, but how is Jesus also the first and the last? Jesus is the first because he is the firstborn in two ways. One, he is the firstborn of God, which to the Jews implied that as the firstborn you are entitled to be the heir of your father, which Jesus is (Hebrews 1:2). Also according to Strong’s Greek Dictionary it means foremost in importance, which Jesus certainly is. This also corresponds with Psalms 89: 28 - 30.
Secondly, Jesus is the firstborn from the dead to be resurrected, which is what Jesus is speaking about in Revelation 1:18 which follows his statement that he is the first and the last. It reads:
"I am the first and the last, the one who lives. Once I was dead, but now I am alive forever."
This is also is in agreement with Colossians 1: 18. Jesus is the last because when he comes again it will be the end of the present age, and he will be in effect the last one to enter this world while it is still under the influence of Satan. He will then usher in the Messianic kingdom of God.
You can not be God and then claim to have one as Jesus clearly teaches He Has!!!
Jesus has a GOD... and your traditions of men can not explain why!!! :readthis:
Paul
In the Old Testament, God calls HIMSELF THE FIRST AND THE LAST. That is exactly what Jesus calls himself in Revelation!
Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.
Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.
JESUS calls HIMSELF the FIRST and the LAST in Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.
Read Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
Jesus calls himself the SAME EXACT name that God calls Himself. So then, why do you have a problem with my calling Jesus God?
keypurr
Well-known member
Thank you for proving my point.
God sent his son, not himself. And they are not one person.
You lack the ability to understand what I have been telling you.
I do not reject truth, I reject your interpertation of truth.
Posted from the TOL App!
keypurr
Well-known member
I see him as a form of God, a god. He has a God and there is only one true God.
You do not want to see that.
Posted from the TOL App!
You're a polytheist.
keypurr
Well-known member
If Christ is the son of the most high God there has to be others that are considered as gods.
Jesus Christ for one. Most high God, why does that not tell folks something?
I go to my God and your God, my Father is the only true God. Words of our Lord.
Glory be to God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
That is what Peter, Paul, James, Luke and other Apostles taught BR.
Never mentioned a trinity.
Posted from the TOL App!