Jesus is God

Jesus is God


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JudgeRightly

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The red herring is you saying red herring.

I am trying to help you see.

If you don't want to answer then I will not give you more scriptures to show you.

I didn't ask for your explanation. I asked for scripture that states that Jesus had a body, either physical or spiritual, before the creation of the universe. If you cannot provide such a passage or group of passages, then I would not be interested in what you have to say, because you would be a false teacher.
 

God's Truth

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I didn't ask for your explanation. I asked for scripture that states that Jesus had a body, either physical or spiritual, before the creation of the universe. If you cannot provide such a passage or group of passages, then I would not be interested in what you have to say, because you would be a false teacher.

I am not going to give you those scriptures.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
:dizzy:
This is where you are going off the rails.

The "first and last" doesn't have anything to with order. It's saying that God is the ALL and the ONLY God.
Isa 41:4 (AKJV/PCE)
(41:4) Who hath wrought and done [it], calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I [am] he.

Isa 43:10 (AKJV/PCE)
(43:10) Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isa 44:6 (AKJV/PCE)
(44:6) Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.

Rev 22:13 (AKJV/PCE)
(22:13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

"The first and the last" refers to His self-existence and His uniqueness as the ONLY God.

"This is where you are going off the rails." Oh if only that were true, RD.

She went off the rails many years ago, and she's showing no sign of making it to the big depot in the sky. ;)
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I didn't ask for your explanation. I asked for scripture that states that Jesus had a body, either physical or spiritual, before the creation of the universe. If you cannot provide such a passage or group of passages, then I would not be interested in what you have to say, because you would be a false teacher.

I am not going to give you those scriptures.

Because there aren't any.

PRICELESS. We need to frame this exchange. :first:
 

JudgeRightly

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PRICELESS. We need to frame this exchange. :first:
Done.

cbc9fe94a03d10cad0eeacc26b3d2b69.jpg
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
How Jesus became 'God'.....

How Jesus became 'God'.....

~*~*~

We would remind all again, that Jesus became 'God' at least 'doctrinally' thru a gradual process and development, as far as that particlar view being finally made into a 'creed' or 'dogma' in the 4th century, with the Nicene Creed and ensuing creeds, eventually crystallized by the Roman state-church, giving the stamp of 'orthodoxy' by her own hand.

After Jesus left the scene and the previous centuries before this particular creed...and after....OTHER Christological views and beliefs continued as well. Various Unitarian and Arian-like views continue on today, as well as various kinds of 'modalism', and more. Just because the Trinitarian View became the 'church-sanctioned' CREED, does not mean or prove that such a view is 'true', let alone correct. Other Christological views are tenable within their own logical frames and contexts.

Bart Ehrman gives a small summary here, by no means exhaustive of the main course of development of HOW Jesus became 'God'. One can also consult his book on the particular subject (link shared here for info. and reader reviews). -

 

Bright Raven

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~*~*~

We would remind all again, that Jesus became 'God' at least 'doctrinally' thru a gradual process and development, as far as that particlar view being finally made into a 'creed' or 'dogma' in the 4th century, with the Nicene Creed and ensuing creeds, eventually crystallized by the Roman state-church, giving the stamp of 'orthodoxy' by her own hand.

After Jesus left the scene and the previous centuries before this particular creed...and after....OTHER Christological views and beliefs continued as well. Various Unitarian and Arian-like views continue on today, as well as various kinds of 'modalism', and more. Just because the Trinitarian View became the 'church-sanctioned' CREED, does not mean or prove that such a view is 'true', let alone correct. Other Christological views are tenable within their own logical frames and contexts.

Bart Ehrman gives a small summary here, by no means exhaustive of the main course of development of HOW Jesus became 'God'. One can also consult his book on the particular subject (link shared here for info. and reader reviews). -


Jesus did not become God, He has always been God.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Not so fast...............

Not so fast...............

Jesus did not become God, He has always been God.

Totally circular, since its been clearly articulated how the BELIEF was 'doctrinally developed', and conceptually accepted thru a process of logics and rationale within certain theological or more pointedly 'Christological' contexts. - My former post and most others on this particular still HOLDS, as well as Bart Ehrmans presentation in his scholarly work on the matter.

Now as to whether one BELIEVES Jesus is God or not (in reality, as it that could really be verified or proven by any certain criteria) is another matter, or more specifically a matter of personal 'belief' and one's chosen 'preference' of Christology. - and that my dear is the truth of this relative matter.

Absolute REALITY if we would consider it, is that ALONE which is ABSOLUTE, and by classical or traditional theist theology and even in universal metaphysical definitions, can only be 'God' or 'Deity' itself (pure Spirit-Energy-Consciousness), if we are to consider the pure essence and IDentity of 'God' himself (in its essential formless incorporeal being) - This 'Deity' is the one and only absolute divine, indivisible, universal, eternal, infinite, timeless, spaceless reality. - all else (creation in space-time) is but a form, expression, manifestation, extension or emenation of 'God' ....so in that case Jesus would naturally be a 'Son' of said 'God', in a similar but nuanced way that all souls, to one degree or another, in one form or fashion...are the 'offspring' of 'God'.

Give Jesus all the Godhood you wish, but the relational differences and distinctions STILL EXIST in the realm of personality-relationships, as these are still 2 personalities RELATING to each other, per the creed's definition. Again, DEEM these 2 or 3 personalities within a 'Trinity' as being of 'one same essence' then its just the same truth of 'monotheism' and even 'monism' but with a little added 'metaphysical gymnastics' thrown in....JUST to make 'Jesus' into 'Almighty God', which in the greater cosmic context of understanding reality in all its dimensions is really NOT necessary to believe as a 'dogma' or a 'truth', but just one way of looking at and relating to 'God' and his Creative Agency, whether these 'sons' be more or less divine or human (assuming they incarnate on various worlds from time to time on 'bestowal missions' to reveal 'God' to the inhabitants of those worlds). - Then add the good ole Holy Spirit into the equation, as if to 'personify' the Spirit of God, when this is again unnecessary, since we relate to the One Spirit of 'God' just the same, whether 'personally' or 'otherwise'.

Add onto to this that 'God' is naturally the Father of spirits,...there are many spirit-offsprings of 'God'.

We could go on........
 
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