Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
That's because he claimed to be the messiah, but he failed to fulfill the messianic prophecies.
For the finer details see here in chapter three: http://MountZion.notlong.com
Jesus is God
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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Bs'd
That's because he claimed to be the messiah, but he failed to fulfill the messianic prophecies.
For the finer details see here in chapter three: http://MountZion.notlong.com
hebrew and OT believers just can't get over the fact that they didn't recognize Jesus Christ, The Messiah. just like the prophets foretold. they can't accept they were wrong. it's ok, Jesus forgave you
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
The messianic prophecies, foretold by the Hebrew prophets, are NOT fulfilled by your messiah:
Who and what is the messiah? Let us check according to the Holy Hebrew scriptures what the messiah is supposed to do. .......
Micha 5:2-9; "But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off."
Here we have very clearly physical redemption from earthly enemies: "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword", "Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but not a wandering preacher and miracle healer.
.........Zacheriah 9:9-10; "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth."
They say that he did ride on a donkey, like the whole Middle East in those days, but that is where it stops. He did not bring any peace, the battle bow, the horses and the chariots, symbols of war, were not cut off from Jerusalem, and his dominion was not from sea to sea and to the ends of the earth; as a matter of fact, he did not have any dominion at all.
In order to get around this problem, the Christian church invented the "second coming". However, nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures is it written that the messiah would come once, get himself killed, and come again in a second coming. This is a pure rationalization of Jesus' failure to function in any way as a messiah. Nowhere in any of the above prophecies does it indicate that there will be a gap of at least 2000 years between the birth of the messiah and the redemption. Nowhere does it speak about a messiah being tortured to death and coming back thousands of years later.
.........Jeremiah 23:5-6; "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."
..........Jeremiah 33:14-16: "IN THOSE DAYS AND AT THAT TIME, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. IN THOSE DAYS shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness."
When the branch of righteousness springs forth to David, when the messiah comes, THEN, IN THOSE DAYS, Judah will be saved and Jerusalem shall dwell safely. That means that it is impossible to squeeze in two thousand or more years between the coming of the messiah and the redemption of Judah and Jerusalem. Out goes the 'second coming'. However, there wasn't any redemption in the days of Jesus. Forty years after his death, in 70 CE, Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the Romans, the second Temple was burned down, and the Jews exiled. No way that the above prophecy was fulfilled.
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.......... Isaiah 11; "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."
Also here we have a messiah who is going to kill the evil people: "And he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." And after that we get the better world, when it says: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them etc." This is what is supposed to happen, as soon as there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (the father of King David) and a Branch shall grow out of his roots; that is as soon as the messiah comes. Nowhere here is mentioned that the messiah will be killed and that these prophecies will happen at least 2000 years later. On the contrary; when the messiah comes redemption comes. And also for this messianic prophecy you don't have to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist in order to see that it is not fulfilled. Nothing of this all was done by Jesus. Conclusion: He was not the messiah.
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He is your Messiah too! that's the Good News. you are too wrapped up in the time frames. 2000 years, 5000 years, He was wrong, He didn't come back etc. you must be young. you''ll see
Elia
Well-known member
He is your Messiah too! that's the Good News. you are too wrapped up in the time frames. 2000 years, 5000 years, He was wrong, He didn't come back etc. you must be young. you''ll see
Bs'd
I don't believe in messiahs who don't fulfill the messianic prophecies.
aw, that's too bad. it's still in progress, sorry if it doesn't happen in your lifetime. it's not all about you
Elia
Well-known member
aw, that's too bad. it's still in progress, sorry if it doesn't happen in your lifetime. it's not all about you
Bs'd
The point is of course that if somebody can just claim to be the messiah, without fulfilling the messianic prophecies, then everybody can claim to be the messiah.
But as soon as he fulfills the messianic prophecies I'll believe he is the messiah.
The descendants of Abraham were "selected" (honored) to be the host of the Son of God while on earth.
But being selected went to the heads of the notoriously stubborn Jewish people, they became arrogant, mistreating Gods prophets and eventually Gods Son.
Had the faithful Israelites interpreted the scriptures and prophets more spiritually, they would have been better prepared for the gospel of a spiritual kingdom (the fellowship of believers).
But instead the Jewish people were cut off, they broke the agreement, the light was given to other people.
You are now false prophets who wait in vain for a Jewish Messiah that is MIA. The Christians live with a false hope that the Son will return to sit in David's exaggerated, corrupt political seat.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
God has no father, no son, and no brother.
There is only ONE God, Y-H-W-H, who IS ONE.
Whoever worships anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is an IDOL WORSHIPER.
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The I AM delegates authority in his subordinate beings. Like the 3 celestials who appeared to Abraham at the oaks of Mamre. But they are all unified in allegiance to Gods will. An example of one falling away would be Satan.
Throughout the evolution of Judaism there were traces of plural deity but the oneness of these unified beings won out as Yahweh in competition with the multiple false Gods among the tribes that surrounded the Israelites in their progression.
Zeke
Well-known member
The progression of the Sun through the seasons more like it, The historical scale weighs heavy on that being the foundation of the Zodiac figurines, brought to life by those wishing to govern-minds in the religious garb-age.
Who is it that speaks in Matthew 3:17?
Then you should consider the one predicted by the so-called Old Testament a fraud, and a bar kochba. Someone has put words in the prophets' mouths, which haven't come true in even 2000 years.
It is only if you think something is a god when it is not, that the object is an idol. Idols aren't gods, and the Christ is not a crucifix. Didn't God have a son called Adam?
I doesn't mean they were idol-worshipping like you.
That was an ignorant statement you just made! Congratulations!
God Himself came to earth in the form of a new born
baby, walked the earth, died on the cross for our sins,
was buried, and subsequently was raised from the dead!
We may not totally understand but, we're asked to place
our faith in Him!
baby, walked the earth, died on the cross for our sins,
was buried, and subsequently was raised from the dead!
We may not totally understand but, we're asked to place
our faith in Him!
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