Nanja
Well-known member
Absolutely Brother !
Jesus is God !
- Thread starter beloved57
- Start date
Absolutely Brother !
NWL
Active member
It would seem Pierac made a small mistake in stating Jesus was called the Alpha and Omega (A&O), most probably because he doesn't realize the reference to the A&O in Rev 1:11 is spurious as was added in many hundreds of years after it was written by John, the scholarly community readily admit this. You have also made the mistake of believing Jesus is the A&O.
Jesus nowhere identifies himself as the A&O, he clearly is NOT the A&O when we read the context of Rev chapter 1. For instance, Rev 1:8 states "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty", notice how the A&O is the same person as the one "who is, and who was, and who is to come" according to v8, now read Rev 1:4,5, which states, "John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, andfrom the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus".
Jesus is clearly mentioned as a separate person from the 'one who is, who was, and is to come' in v4 meaning isn't that same one when who is mentioned in Rev 1:8, this is irrefutable and undeniable. Also take note the one 'who is, and who was, and who is to come', namely the A&O, sits on the throne in v4, it states"peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne", now look at Rev 5:1 where it mentions the one who sits on the throne has a scroll in his right hand, "Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll", now technically according to you this person is Jesus, since, he's apparently the person who sits on the throne being the A&O in Rev 1:8, BUT notice what Rev 5:6,7 say about this one who sits on the throne, "Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne... He [the Lamb] went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne." THE LAMB takes the scroll from the one who sits on the throne! So it's impossible that Jesus IS the one who sits on the throne as mentioned in Rev 1:8 and Rev 1:4.
These are two pieces of evidence that are irrefutable in proving Jesus is NOT the A&O, the texts are so clear about this, you have been lied to.
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NWL
Active member
Yeah right what? Are you able to actually refute anything I say in place of trying to put down what I said without evidence? Again, what I said is irrefutable, no doubt, this is the reason why you don't actually tackle anything I said.
NWL
Active member
Refer me to the post where you deal with the points I raised, let me guess, you either can't or won't, nor will you try and touch any of the arguments I've made. I've spoken to many many Trinitarians and have used the argument that I've above laid out many times, its never been refuted, the reason why, because its what the scriptures clearly teach.
Again, Jesus is not the A&O in Rev 1:8 since the A&O, namely, the one who is, was and is coming, is mentioned as a separate person from Jesus in the immediate context of Rev 1:4,5. Also, Jesus is not the A&O who sits on the throne in Rev 1:4 or Rev 1:8 since Jesus takes the scroll out of the hand of the A&O when comparing Rev 5:1 with Rev 5:6,7, clearly showing he is not the one who sits on the throne.
Prove me wrong. Either direct me to the post or prove it again, I doubt you can do either.
Also, I do not deny Jesus can be called God the same way scripture itself doesn't deny he or other persons, such as Men (John 10:34), Angels (Ps 8:5), Moses (Exo 7:1) or even Satan (2 Cor 4:4), are called Gods. I deny that he is the 'one God', only the Father is the 'one God', this fact is also undeniable, 1 Corinthians 8:5, 6 states "For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ." Only the Father is the 'one God'.
NWL
Active member
I'm aware I'm in your thread, this is the second time you've told me now. I'm aware you have "given your scriptures" previously, hence the reason why I asked you to refer me to them where it dealt with the points I made, you didn't. It is incredibly foolish of you to keep telling me how you, or this thread, has proved "Jesus is God" in reply to a very specific argument about the A&O that I've made that has nowhere been made on your thread. It's even more foolish to keep saying this when I myself agree that Jesus is God, I even explained this is my last post to you where I stated Jesus is called God as well as many others beings, such as Moses, Angels, men, and even Satan, he simply isn't the 'one God' since that title only belongs to the Father.
You had no issue conversing Pierce the other day, but as soon as someone makes a good argument and point from scripture you shy away and put on a facade and state things that don't deal with my point. Again, I've made a very specific argument, simply replying, 'this thread as proved Jesus is God' does NOTHING in dealing with the points I've raised about the A&O.
As I said before, I very much doubted your ability to deal with the points, in fact, no one ever has, the reason being is because you cannot fight against truth, and that is exactly what I presented, thank you for showing all who read this thread this.
NWL
Active member
Of course not, no one is obligated to answer any points or questions in life. The issue you have though is that you are a hypocrite by saying "I don't need to deal with your points", since it was only the other day you were asking questions and making points to others, yet here you are no saying you don't need to answer my points despite openly disagreeing with them. Only a fool disagrees with someone and makes assertions without proof, you, my friend, openly disagreed with me and make an assertion with no backing whatsoever. Whilst I accept your right of silence it does nothing in showing others that your assertions are correct, and the points I have shown are false. Plainly stated DO NOT claim I am wrong unless you are willing to evidence why I'm wrong, it only makes you look stupid.
It should also be said, the reason why you say 'you don't need to deal with my points' is because you can't, what I said is irrefutable and solid and you know it, hence why you pretend you won't answer based on the reason that 'you don't need to', you are fooling no one buddy.
You have eyes but cannot see.
Only because you wish to remain blind.
An assertion without evidence, but nonetheless I agree with you! Jesus is God! You're preaching to the choir, he simply isn't the 'one God', ONLY the Father is.
NWL
Active member
Yet you can't even show me a single one when asked. Furthermore, you bringing up the rest of the thread as evidence DOES NOT EXPLAIN why Jesus is spoken as separate from the A&O in Rev 1:4,5 when he is the A&O of Rev 1:4, it DOES NOT EXPLAIN how Jesus approaches the A&O who sits on the throne and takes the scrolll out of his hand if he is the one who sits on the throne, and it never will. You repeating yourself like a parrot that you have an entire thread behind you which proves Jesus is God, when I do not even deny he is God, but simply deny he is the 'one God', will never explain your way around how you believe Jesus is the A&O when he clearly is not when reviewing scripture.
So again, either, refer me to a previous post, explain your way around my points, or accept the fact you lack the ability and willpower to answer me by stop claiming I'm wrong by what I say. What point is there in expressing I'm incorrect if you are unwilling and unable to show how and why I am wrong, you look stupid.
beloved57
Well-known member
All of my points have been shown before in the thread, dont need to make special effort for you, when its obvious you are not receiving the Truth, but finding ways to discredit it ! I have provided multitudes of scripture that proves Jesus is God, even your God to whom you will stand in judgement ! If you deny Jesus is the One True God, you deny He is God 1 Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
NWL
Active member
How can you say I'm not receiving truth, what's this based on? Simply because you don't agree with me. What I've shown you is directly from the bible, nothing has been twisted nothing has been changed, you've refused to explain the issues I've raised in relation to your belief so how can you possible claim I do not have the truth. Again, stop asserting things you refuse to evidence, its foolish. Also note that nothing you've ever said has answered the issues I've raised so it's pointless repeating your same excuse, stop ignoring this.
Again, why do you keep repeating yourself, IM AWARE YOU'VE SHOWN YOUR POINTS ON THIS THREAD BEFORE, REFER ME TO ONE SO THAT I CAN READ IT. STOP IGNORING THIS.
NWL
Active member
No, I've denied he is the 'one God', I've said multiple times he is called God, but being called God by itself isn't proof that someone is the one or true God.
Your reasoning is incredibly flawed, for example I could use reasoning against a specific verse used in defense of the trinity and you could dismiss it saying the reasoning doesn't refute the rest of material trinitarians use to try and prove the trinity. We must tackle one scripture at a time, and that's exactly what I'm doing.
So yes, whilst me talking about Jesus being the A&O doesn't disprove the entirety of other trinitarian proof text its foolish to claim you don't need to answer it because other scripture still proves your worldview.
NWL
Active member
What truth have I denied? You can't claim I'm denying the truth when you refuse to even reason with me from the scriptures as to establish whose position is more in line with truth and scripture.
Again, its you who refused to refer me to one of your post that apparently proves Jesus is God and its you who refuses to give an answer to the issues I raised with Jesus being the A&O, its mind boggling that you then accuse me of denying scripture. .
Remember, I accept Jesus is the called God according to the scriptures, the same way many other beings are, I simply deny he is the 'One God'. If the truth that I am apparently denying is that I don't accept Jesus as the 'one God', you firstly have to prove that Jesus is the 'one God' according to scripture, you haven't showed me anything yet, so you have no right to claim I've denied truth. Actually think about the things you say, since, at present, almost every post you're making to me you shows foolishness in your thinking.
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NWL
Active member
For me to deny it it would have to be true according to the bible, where does the Bible give Jesus the title one true God or living God for me to deny it as truth?
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