Jesus is God !

glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
keypurr said:
No, I don't think so friend. The "he" is there for a reason.

The Aramaic also does not use the "he".

Note from the AENT
In Semitic thought, the phase "Ena-na" ( I am) conveys a thought of eternal existence reserved only for Elohim. This naturally leads to the following question in verse 25 in the Greek.
Click to expand...

Interesting denial considering Jesus referred to Himself as the great I AM many times.

I AM the bread of life.
I AM the way, the truth, and the life.
I AM the light of the world.
I AM the Good Shepherd.
I AM the Door.
I AM the resurrection and the life.
I AM the true vine.
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
The whole entire Bible is a revelation that Jesus Christ is God.

Go back to school with the others who remain blind to this great Truth. :wave:
Click to expand...
School won't get you anywhere, it can teach you texts, but it can't give you revelation, that comes from God. You need your eyes opened by the Holy Spirit, only he can reveal the truth.

Which is, Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God, and the father is the God and father of Christ Jesus too, and the only true God. And not only is this clearly shown in the Bible, but Jesus himself says this very clearly!
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
Interesting denial considering Jesus referred to Himself as the great I AM many times.

I AM the bread of life.
I AM the way, the truth, and the life.
I AM the light of the world.
I AM the Good Shepherd.
I AM the Door.
I AM the resurrection and the life.
I AM the true vine.
Click to expand...
I refer to myself as "I am" many times too, as in I am Mary, I am a mother, I am a wife, I am a nana, but I am not God. I am are words in the English language that we use on a daily bases to talk about ourselves, how would Jesus have explained anything about himself if he never used the words I AM? Everyone uses the words I AM, they are common words.

What you have done is typical of what Trinitarians do to try and make Bible verses fit their doctrine.

Listen to Jesus himself, he says that the father is the only true God, and that the father is his God and father too. I'm not trying to twist verses to mean this, Jesus says it very clearly himself, maybe you should believe him.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
keypurr said:
Friend, I pray to understand more of the Hebrew, but my age does not let me retain like it use to. I do express my inner thoughts but I believe that these thoughts came to me for a reason. My time is running short, but if can show some and get them to see, the limited light that I have might continue to brighten.

In Genesis 1 God said "Let there be light" and was it not the "spirit of God" that God used to do that? Would not the express image be considered as the spirit of God? Was not all creation done through this spirit? Is not this spirit the son of the most high? Many questions, but I think I see the light in question.

Sent from my iPad using TOL
Click to expand...

Okay, let's forget that for now and focus on the passage. The ellipsis begins immediately following the woman caught in adultery scene. The Master speaks again and says the following:

John 8:12
12 Again, therefore, Yeshua spoke to them, saying, I am the light of the world: the one following me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of the life.

The ellipsis is going to be "the light of the world" every time he makes the "I am" statement in this passage; and the way that we may know is because he says so in the following passage:

John 8:21-25
21 He said therefore again to them, I go away, and you shall seek me, and shall die in your sin: where I go, you cannot come.
22 The Yhudim therefore said, Will he kill himself? in that he says, Where I go, you cannot come?
23 And he said to them, You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins:
for unless you believe that I am — — — — —, you shall die in your sins.

And because they understood that he did not complete the statement concerning who he is, they asked him in the next verse, and he refers them back to the commencement meaning when he began speaking to them in this passage, (John 8:12 quoted above, "I am the light of the world").

John 8:25
25 They said therefore to him, You are who? Yeshua said to them, την αρχην ο τι και λαλω υμιν

There are multiple ways to understand the Greek phrase "την αρχην ο τι και λαλω υμιν", the first two words may actually be taken as a single statement, "the Arche", (Gen 1:1 LXX and John 1:1), which I need not go into now, but when not taken as a name it means the commencement or the beginning, as most translators render it. So he answers them, "That which I also spoke to you at the commencement", (which refers them back to the words he spoke in John 8:12, when he commenced speaking to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world"), and that necessarily means that he is playing a word game with them to see if they will follow what he says and properly apply the ellipsis throughout his discourse with them, (and of course they do not follow it, and of course the author is playing this same word game with us, the readers, lol).

John 8:12
12 Again, therefore, Yeshua spoke to them, saying, I am the light of the world:
the one following me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of the life.

John 8:25
24 I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins:
for unless you believe that I am — — — — —, you shall die in your sins.

John 8:28
28 Yeshua therefore said, When you have lifted up the Son of man,
then shall you know that I am — — — — —, and that I do nothing of myself,
but as the Father taught me, these things I speak.

John 8:58
58 Yeshua said to them, Amen-amen, I say to you,
Before Abraham is done, [Gen 22:11-13] I am — — — — —!
[the soterion-peace-offering Ram]

John 8:58
58 Yeshua said to them, Amen-amen, I say to you,
Before Abraham comes to be, [Gen 1:1-3] I am — — — — —!
[the Arche, Ruach Elohim, Yah, the Light of the world]

Every one of the above is the same ellipsis: "I am the light of the world", and the author reveals that he is still on this same topic in the opening of the next chapter as they exit the temple. Thy did not understand and took up stones again to stone him, but he concealed himself and went forth from among them, and then we read:

John 9:1-5
1 And as he passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Rabbi, who sinned, this man, or his parents, that he should be born blind?
3 Yeshua answered, Neither did this man sin, nor his parents: but that the works of Elohim should be made manifest in him.
4 We must work the works of Him that sent me, while it is day: the night comes, when no man can work.
5 When I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

:sheep:
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
daqq said:
Okay, let's forget that for now and focus on the passage. The ellipsis begins immediately following the woman caught in adultery scene. The Master speaks again and says the following:

John 8:12
12 Again, therefore, Yeshua spoke to them, saying, I am the light of the world: the one following me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of the life.

The ellipsis is going to be "the light of the world" every time he makes the "I am" statement in this passage; and the way that we may know is because he says so in the following passage:

John 8:21-25
21 He said therefore again to them, I go away, and you shall seek me, and shall die in your sin: where I go, you cannot come.
22 The Yhudim therefore said, Will he kill himself? in that he says, Where I go, you cannot come?
23 And he said to them, You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins:
for unless you believe that I am — — — — —, you shall die in your sins.

And because they understood that he did not complete the statement concerning who he is, they asked him in the next verse, and he refers them back to the commencement meaning when he began speaking to them in this passage, (John 8:12 quoted above, "I am the light of the world").

John 8:25
25 They said therefore to him, You are who? Yeshua said to them, την αρχην ο τι και λαλω υμιν

There are multiple ways to understand the Greek phrase "την αρχην ο τι και λαλω υμιν", the first two words may actually be taken as a single statement, "the Arche", (Gen 1:1 LXX and John 1:1), which I need not go into now, but when not taken as a name it means the commencement or the beginning, as most translators render it. So he answers them, "That which I also spoke to you at the commencement", (which refers them back to the words he spoke in John 8:12, when he commenced speaking to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world"), and that necessarily means that he is playing a word game with them to see if they will follow what he says and properly apply the ellipsis throughout his discourse with them, (and of course they do not follow it, and of course the author is playing this same word game with us, the readers, lol).

John 8:12
12 Again, therefore, Yeshua spoke to them, saying, I am the light of the world:
the one following me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of the life.

John 8:25
24 I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins:
for unless you believe that I am — — — — —, you shall die in your sins.

John 8:28
28 Yeshua therefore said, When you have lifted up the Son of man,
then shall you know that I am — — — — —, and that I do nothing of myself,
but as the Father taught me, these things I speak.

John 8:58
58 Yeshua said to them, Amen-amen, I say to you,
Before Abraham is done, [Gen 22:11-13] I am — — — — —!
[the soterion-peace-offering Ram]

John 8:58
58 Yeshua said to them, Amen-amen, I say to you,
Before Abraham comes to be, [Gen 1:1-3] I am — — — — —!
[the Arche, Ruach Elohim, Yah, the Light of the world]

Every one of the above is the same ellipsis: "I am the light of the world", and the author reveals that he is still on this same topic in the opening of the next chapter as they exit the temple. Thy did not understand and took up stones again to stone him, but he concealed himself and went forth from among them, and then we read:

John 9:1-5
1 And as he passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Rabbi, who sinned, this man, or his parents, that he should be born blind?
3 Yeshua answered, Neither did this man sin, nor his parents: but that the works of Elohim should be made manifest in him.
4 We must work the works of Him that sent me, while it is day: the night comes, when no man can work.
5 When I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

:sheep:
Click to expand...

Thank you my friend as usual you give me food to ponder over.

Am I wrong to think that the express image son is the spirit of the Father in Genesis 1? Paul's words seem to point that way, so do John's.


Sent from my iPad using TOL
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
keypurr said:
Thank you my friend as usual you give me food to ponder over.

Am I wrong to think that the express image son is the spirit of the Father in Genesis 1? Paul's words seem to point that way, so do John's.


Sent from my iPad using TOL
Click to expand...

Nope, I do not think you are wrong, Testimony-Word is Spirit-Wind-Breath.
The Son is the Spirit is the Word of the Father, (even the Torah is called Living Oracles, (Logia)).
 
keypurr

keypurr

Well-known member
daqq said:
Nope, I do not think you are wrong, Testimony-Word is Spirit-Wind-Breath.
The Son is the Spirit is the Word of the Father, (even the Torah is called Living Oracles, (Logia)).
Click to expand...

Thank you, sometimes I feel that I am the only one that sees that.

I respect your opinion daqq, you far more advanced in theology than I.


Sent from my iPad using TOL
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
marhig said:
School won't get you anywhere, it can teach you texts, but it can't give you revelation, that comes from God. You need your eyes opened by the Holy Spirit, only he can reveal the truth.

Which is, Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God, and the father is the God and father of Christ Jesus too, and the only true God. And not only is this clearly shown in the Bible, but Jesus himself says this very clearly!
Click to expand...

I guess your mind is tuned to the natural man's understanding of "school".

Clearly, it is not that of a spiritual man since you refuse to recognize your Lord God and Saviour.

The schoolmaster is the Law, and you have not yet graduated.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
marhig said:
I refer to myself as "I am" many times too, as in I am Mary, I am a mother, I am a wife, I am a nana, but I am not God. I am are words in the English language that we use on a daily bases to talk about ourselves, how would Jesus have explained anything about himself if he never used the words I AM? Everyone uses the words I AM, they are common words.

What you have done is typical of what Trinitarians do to try and make Bible verses fit their doctrine.

Listen to Jesus himself, he says that the father is the only true God, and that the father is his God and father too. I'm not trying to twist verses to mean this, Jesus says it very clearly himself, maybe you should believe him.
Click to expand...

:chuckle:

You are not a Jew, and the Jews knew exactly what Jesus was saying. In fact, you are not a Christian, and therefore refuse to see what He was saying.


But the Jews knew, and that's why they fell over backward in shock that He would say He was the great I AM.

John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.​

Why would they fall over backward and haul Him off to be crucified? For once, use the brain God gave you and put off your foolish Pride. Pride is what keeps every man from turning to their Lord and God. He came, and you reject Him. FOOL
 
drbrumley

drbrumley

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
:chuckle:

You are not a Jew, and the Jews knew exactly what Jesus was saying. In fact, you are not a Christian, and therefore refuse to see what He was saying.


But the Jews knew, and that's why they fell over backward in shock that He would say He was the great I AM.

John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.​

Why would they fall over backward and haul Him off to be crucified? For once, use the brain God gave you and put off your foolish Pride. Pride is what keeps every man from turning to their Lord and God. He came, and you reject Him. FOOL
Click to expand...

Not to mention they picked up stones to stone Him and Jesus asked why they were doing this and the response was "making yourself to be God."
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
glorydaz said:
:chuckle:

You are not a Jew, and the Jews knew exactly what Jesus was saying. In fact, you are not a Christian, and therefore refuse to see what He was saying.


But the Jews knew, and that's why they fell over backward in shock that He would say He was the great I AM.

John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.​

Why would they fall over backward and haul Him off to be crucified? For once, use the brain God gave you and put off your foolish Pride. Pride is what keeps every man from turning to their Lord and God. He came, and you reject Him. FOOL
Click to expand...

You never believed Jesus is a man.

Jesus is the first born of many brethren.

You do not seem to be one of them.

LA
 
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