JESUS IS A MAN EXACTLY LIKE HIS BRETHERN

[keypurr]

Truth is a stumbling block Aner, Satan will do he can to hide it.
Your posts are gold my friend.

 

[Right Divider]

Admittedly I am at a loss as to why an OP that simply provides the Word of God would not be in the ECT.... (I honestly wonder whether this sort of reflects how far the church has fallen into a love of tradition?).

Regardless, you are the boss and I submit to you without further question as we are called to do.

Because the Christian faith believes that Jesus the GOD/MAN. His being a man does NOT exclude Him from being God in His Spirit.

Again and again Jesus expressed HIS DEITY, but unbelievers like you remain unbelievers.

Mat 24:35 KJV Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
​

How, exactly, do the words of a man NOT pass away?

That is a claim to be GOD.

 

[aikido7]

I provide the following texts for those who may never have had an opportunity to actually read all the great texts which clearly, repeatedly and formally describe and necessitate that Jesus is a man.

A man is an entity that can function without an incarnated deity (as each of us knows for certain). In fact this is a great test for discerning heresy - if the Jesus you teach cannot fully function independent of an incarnated deity, you do do not have a man - you have another kind of being. Scripture is clear - Jesus is man just like you, I and Adam. As troublesome as this may be for some - truth is ultimately healing - and, in this instance, VERY powerful!

Explicit Statements that Jesus is a Man
Zechariah 6:12,13 "And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man [אִ֞ישׁ (backwards)] whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord:

Luke 24:19 And he said to them, “What things?” And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, a man [ἀνὴρ] who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people,
NOTE: Jesus did not chastise them because of errant Christology ….

John 1:30 This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man [ἀνὴρ] who ranks before me, because he was before me.’

John 3:27 John answered and said, A man [ἄνθρωπος] can receive nothing except it is given him from the heaven.

John 8:40 but now you seek to kill me, a man [ἄνθρωπος] who has told you the truth that I heard from God.

Acts 2:22, 23 “Men [Aνδρες] of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man [ἄνδρα] and attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men

Acts 17:30, 31 “The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man [ἀνὴρ] whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, how much more did the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man [ἄνθρωπος] Jesus Christ abound unto the many.

I Cor 15:21 For as by [δι’] a man [ἄνθρωπος] came death, by [δι’] a man [ἄνθρωπος] has come also the resurrection of the dead.

I Cor 15:47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man [ἄνθρωπος] is from heaven
ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος ἐκ γῆς χοϊκός, ὁ δεύτερος ἄνθρωπος ἐξ οὐρανοῦ.

Phil 2:7, 8 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
8 and being found in fashion as a man [ἄνθρωπος], he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross.

I Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man [ἄνθρωπος] Christ Jesus,

Explicit Statements that Jesus was Created

Heb 2:10, 11
10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering. 11 For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one source. (ὅ τε γὰρ ἁγιάζων καὶ οἱ ἁγιαζόμενοι ὅ τε γὰρ ἁγιάζων καὶ οἱ ἁγιαζόμενοι ἐξ ἑνὸς πάντες ἑνὸς πάντες). See ICor 8:6 for sense of ἐξ as the ultimate creative source.

I wish to bracket the Gospel of John, for a consensus of researchers know that it is theology, not history, and does not produce a believable picture of Jesus.

But if you carefully read the other three accounts, Jesus never quite definitively says he thinks of himself as divine. Even on his last day when Pilate brings up the subject, he can only say "You have said so." He does refer to himself as the "Son of Man" and makes an oblique reference to himself as a prophet. But "son of man" refers to a human being or "Son of Adam."

It is troubling to me that we declare Jesus both God and man, yet many traditional believers have hijacked that theology and chosen to completely ignore the actual man who walked the dusty roads of Palestine long ago.

 

[lifeisgood]

Quite interesting: Son of Man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M7ePlmgVxA

 

[aikido7]

Quite interesting: Son of Man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M7ePlmgVxA

I found it an interesting exchange. The trouble with Islam and Christianity is that their believers tend to take the sacred and metaphorical writings in their Holy Books as literal truth, not as profound metaphors.

In the Quran, Mohammed takes to the heavens riding a giant white steed. Jesus is said to have walked on water, etc.

If you take this language at face value in modern, "factually correct" fashion, you only turn the rest of our global culture off and might even force folks to leave the entire Christian and Muslim faith behind.

As I Christian, I feel that Jesus has a lot to teach us. Unfortunately, the faith has become a religion Jesus would have despised and rejected.

 

[StanJ]

I wish to bracket the Gospel of John, for a consensus of researchers know that it is theology, not history, and does not produce a believable picture of Jesus.
But if you carefully read the other three accounts, Jesus never quite definitively says he thinks of himself as divine. Even on his last day when Pilate brings up the subject, he can only say "You have said so." He does refer to himself as the "Son of Man" and makes an oblique reference to himself as a prophet. But "son of man" refers to a human being or "Son of Adam."
It is troubling to me that we declare Jesus both God and man, yet many traditional believers have hijacked that theology and chosen to completely ignore the actual man who walked the dusty roads of Palestine long ago.

That's a very convenient claim, how about some proof?
I bet you have no idea who wrote the Gospel of John?

 

[StanJ]

Admittedly I am at a loss as to why an OP that simply provides the Word of God would not be in the ECT.... (I honestly wonder whether this sort of reflects how far the church has fallen into a love of tradition?).

Regardless, you are the boss and I submit to you without further question as we are called to do.

OBVIOUSLY, it is NOT Essential Christian Truth.

 

[StanJ]

Stan

That is a silly question. There are many that have understanding and know - though none of us knows as we ought to know.

36+ yrs - including listening to literally thousands and thousands of hours of evangelical pablum on the two local radio stations.

Not based on your condescending posts it isn't?

So you think 36+ years makes you wise and inerrant? Do you think that people who have a long history of reading the Bible and assimilating its truths are more qualified than those who have less?

 

[StanJ]

Stan
I appreciate and acknowledge each of the vss you supplied. If you exegete any of them to eliminate the clear,formal teaching that Jesus is a man and replace with an impersonal human nature, you are creating a fundamental contradiction in the Word of God. Sure you want to do that??
Aner

I think they are very straight forward in what they say Aner, I just responded in kind to your post. If you can accept and understand what the entirety of the NT conveys, they are NOT a problem. If you only accept some verses because they support your dogma, and ignore others, then that is eisegesis, NOT exegesis. Do you know the difference?

 

[meshak]

Not based on your condescending posts it isn't?

So you think 36+ years makes you wise and inerrant? Do you think that people who have a long history of reading the Bible and assimilating its truths are more qualified than those who have less?

stan this is your post:

:
Originally Posted by StanJ View Post
Are you claiming YOU are the only one that reads the word of God with understanding? How long have you studied the Bible?

You asked Aner how long he has been studies the Bible. and he answered.

Then you reply like this? what a concept.

 

[aikido7]

That's a very convenient claim, how about some proof?
I bet you have no idea who wrote the Gospel of John?

Usually on this site, most believers preference faith and belief above historical fact and research.

So no matter how much evidence and data I bring (from scholars as well as from the text itself) does not even register with many folks here.

I have dealt with your earnest criticisms before and I don't want to get into it.

But by the way, there is no way I can honestly claim that I am right.
The past is past, and the canonical Bible is the only common source we have for our faith and our conjectures.

 

[aikido7]

Most Christians want to believe in Jesus AS Son of God, Savior, Messiah, etc. instead of his authentic voice print in such commands as "Love your enemies" or in statements such as "Why do you call me good? Only God is good!" or "Pray to the Father in secret."

He was an iconoclast but believers have made him into an icon and placed it on a pedestal.

 

[Aner]

I wish to bracket the Gospel of John, for a consensus of researchers know that it is theology, not history, and does not produce a believable picture of Jesus.

But if you carefully read the other three accounts, Jesus never quite definitively says he thinks of himself as divine. Even on his last day when Pilate brings up the subject, he can only say "You have said so." He does refer to himself as the "Son of Man" and makes an oblique reference to himself as a prophet. But "son of man" refers to a human being or "Son of Adam."

It is troubling to me that we declare Jesus both God and man, yet many traditional believers have hijacked that theology and chosen to completely ignore the actual man who walked the dusty roads of Palestine long ago.

There is no problem with the Gospel of John in supporting that Jesus is a man. John 8:40 - the only time Jesus describes Himself - and calls Himself a man in contrast to God.

 

[Aner]

Most Christians want to believe in Jesus AS Son of God, Savior, Messiah, etc. instead of his authentic voice print in such commands as "Love your enemies" or in statements such as "Why do you call me good? Only God is good!" or "Pray to the Father in secret."

He was an iconoclast but believers have made him into an icon and placed it on a pedestal.

Nice statement!

 

[aikido7]

There is no problem with the Gospel of John in supporting that Jesus is a man. John 8:40 - the only time Jesus describes Himself - and calls Himself a man in contrast to God.

I don't have that problem with John, either.

After all, he was a man. It's just that us Christians see God revealed in him.

It's just that I see the figure of Jesus in John as someone who is definitely not "walking his talk." He is so radically different from the Jesus of the synoptics that it is clear John is riffing on his own community's theological agenda.

 

[Aner]

OBVIOUSLY, it is NOT Essential Christian Truth.

Jesus being a man is not an essential Christian truth??

I Cor 15:21
If you want to get resurrected it sure is!

 

[Aner]

Kind of angry, aren't ya?

That is a silly statement. Nonetheless - if you would kindly point which specific words/phrases convey anger, I will review.

What is the real benefit or point or purpose in your making this statement?

 

[aikido7]

Nice statement!

Thank you. That makes me feel good because I think I have been understood by another poster. And there is no greater gift.

 

[aikido7]

Being a man, Jesus was just like "his brethern." But he went WAY far beyond them and us today.

We are the missing link between the material of the world and the spiritual of God in Jesus.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Most Christians want to believe in Jesus AS Son of God, Savior, Messiah, etc. instead of his authentic voice print in such commands as "Love your enemies" or in statements such as "Why do you call me good? Only God is good!" or "Pray to the Father in secret."

He was an iconoclast but believers have made him into an icon and placed it on a pedestal.

What you just said, made NO earthly sense? Are your thinking processes not working properly?