We use the term "church" in more than one way. We use it to mean the building that we worship at (Like, I'll be home late for dinner...I have to run by the church for a minute) And we use it to mean the people who make up the Body of Christ.
Yes but the true church are the people not any building, man has named the building a church, and the true temple is our body and we together as living stones make Gods church.
You don't really know that. Jesus (God) was pretty upset about the misuse going on in the Temple (building) when He made a whip and drove out the money changers. I think He was mad about how they were using the house of God. (the building).
Yes I do, because when the disciples came to show Jesus the buildings of the temple, he told them, truly I say to you, there shall be not one stone, left upon another that shall not be thrown down, the natural temple meant nothing to him. (Matthew 24)
Oh, I agree. And we can find people in all denominations that probably do those things. But there is more to it than that. That isn't everythingthe true church of Christ does, is it?
Yes we can find Gods people everywhere, there is no one true denomination, Gods people are those who do his will. The only true way is Jesus. And no that isn't everything, if we love God with all our hearts, minds soul and strength, and love our neighbours as ourselves, then we will do the what I said in my last post that Gods people do, and more.
Amen. James is emphasizing that true religion is more than a set of beliefs or type of worship. He is emphasizing that true religion includes works of charity. This goes well with what Paul says in Galations 5:6 about "faith working through love."
That's great
Sure. I agree with what you are saying. But the Church of Christ is also visible. It has to be or Matthew 18:17 makes no sense. How can we "tell it to the Church, Jesus, if the Church is only invisible?" Who do we go to? Only God knows who the true invisible church is...we don't. So who do we go to in obedience to Jesus' words in Matthew 18?
Jesus had to be kissed to point him out, he wasn't dressed in ornate robes and hats, he looked like everyone else, it was the word of God with power and wisdom that stood him apart from everyone else. He didn't need the outer garments to look lovely, he was covered by God. Just like David didn't need Saul's armour, God provided for David when he needed it. And he didn't need any man made covering.
Christ's Church must be visible for someone to do that. So the Church cannot be only invisible. It must also be visible.
Jesus preached on the mountain, by the sea, he preached everywhere. And he preached in the temple yes, but they threw him out and wanted to kill him!
If Christ's true Church is only invisible....then Matthew 18:17 makes no sense also because His Church was present at Matthew 18:16 where two or three were gathered in His name. How can we "take it to the Church" if His invisible Church was already there in verse 16?
His Church must be visible for verse 17 to make sense.
I'm just saying that the building isn't the important thing, it's the people. And we have house meetings where we gather, we go to each others houses and share Gods word, there is no need for ornate over the top church buildings. Jesus wasn't like that, can't you see that when you read the gospels? He was humble, he even ran away when they tried make him a king. I truly believe that he wouldn't have liked ornate buildings like they have now, some of them are totally ott, don't you think?
Everything you described above about being a part of the true church of Christ (loving God, loving others) is not restricted to poor people. Rich people can do those things as well. And middle class people. And poor people. Christianity isn't restricted to any particular class of people, race of people, nation of people, etc. You cannot discount the authenticity of believers because they dress differently or come from different socio-economic backgrounds.
It's the love of money that's the root of all evil, so if we would find it hard to part with it, then that's when we love it.
It's better not to have too much, and if we truly have the love God in our hearts, then it should be very hard to keep a large bank balance when there are people in need around us.
Pomp and ceremony is churches can be negative. But not necessarily so. Worship of God is primarily a thing of the heart. I'm not sure we can say that one style of worship is better than others because of the type of ceremony it is. What you see as pomp and ceremony as being a bad thing.....others may see it as a good thing. Like, "Whoa. These people take their worship seriously!! Must be somebody important they are worshipping to go to all of this trouble and make a service like this!!! (And that would be fine by me....He is the King of all Kings, after all, who we Christians worship.) That also would be fine by me because it matches up pretty well with the seriousness that they took with the Temple worship of God in the O.T. too. Lots of gold and fine linens and special outfits for the Levites, etc.....all commanded by God.
Peace.
The only right way to worship, is to worship the father in spirit and in truth and to follow Jesus, Jesus told us to pray from the closets, God hears all our heartfelt prayers wherever we are, and Jesus came as an example for us to follow and he bore witness to the truth and showed us the true way to worship God. To live in a new and living way, living by the spirit and not by the lusts of the flesh. The material things of this world mean nothing to God, he doesn't want lip service and an outward show, God wants our hearts and he wants us to love him with our all and to care for those we meet and bring the love of God and Christ to them.
