ECT JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF FOUNDED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

[chrysostom]

Ok, I just don't want you to go to hell for all eternity. But if you want to ignore alternative views to church history and rest in the rcc, that is where you will end up.

Please repent chrys

so I am going to hell based on what I posted here?
-the church says I might be saved
--thinking---
I going with the church

 

[Choleric]

You cannot examine how a man raises his kids if they are not married... examination of how he governs his household is a key qualification for eldership.

As far as writing books and all... under who's eldership are these books vetted and approved for release? Ruckman is a lone ranger and is not subject to any leadership.

There is a correct and biblical way to do things... you would think that people who put themselves out in the limelight would be somewhat concerned about it. Anyhow, Ruckman is pretty much a laughing stock outside of the bizarre non-biblical KJV-Only movement.

Paul didn't have any kids. Was he qualified?

And where is your ecclesiastical authority to post here?

Where was Pauls authority?

 

[HisServant]

so I am going to hell based on what I posted here?
-the church says I might be saved
--thinking---
I going with the church

Salvation is not a group activity... you are required to think and act for yourself.

The church wants you to think you 'might be saved' so it can exercise power over you.

 

[HisServant]

Paul didn't have any kids. Was he qualified?

And where is your ecclesiastical authority to post here?

Where was Pauls authority?

Never have I claimed that my posts have any authority, nor should anyone else make such a claim.

Paul's authority was Jesus Christ himself and the acceptance by the rest of the apostles. Paul was also an apostles (not an elder).

Are you equating Ruckman as being an Apostle?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

so I am going to hell based on what I posted here?
-the church says I might be saved
--thinking---
I going with the church

Why don't you just believe the gospel right now, and receive the atonement?
Can you imagine your life without the bondage of religion?

 

[Cruciform]

Catholic doctrinal heresies

:darwinsm:... Right up there with the glaringly erroneous pseudo-scholarship of Jack Chick. Brilliant.

 

[Nihilo]

the Roman co-opt

The Church exploded in Rome, well before the Apostles departed. The Roman diocese began in Jerusalem, according to the Scripture Acts 2:9,10,11, when Latin-speaking Roman citizens, visiting Jerusalem for Pentecost, heard the Apostles speaking Latin.

Spoiler

A bishop is most prominently an ordained priest who is responsible for a diocese. A diocese is many parishes. For comparison, today, there are on the order of 200,000 parishes of the Holy Catholic Church. There are on the order of 2,000-3,000 bishops, which works out to let's say 50 parishes per bishop. That's a bishop. He (always he) is responsible for 50 parishes. Obviously he cannot say Mass at 50 parishes every day, let alone every Sunday. So instead there are ordained pastors that report to him who say Mass, validly, at the 49 other parishes besides the bishop's own parish, at which he does say Mass regularly, up to and including the pope.

In Rome, in the first century, the Church exploded like nowhere else. When you say, "the Roman co-opt," I sure hope you're thinking about around the 40s and 50s and 60s, because Rome was a Church hotbed from the first. Rome was the Church's bread basket, it was obvious, from very early on, and both Peter and Paul were in Rome when some Romans murdered them. Because they flocked to the city like moths to the light. Because that's where the action was. Rome needed bishops, not just elders or priests. Bishops are pastors of the Church who are entrusted with responsibility for multiple parishes.

Rome caught the Church's faith and it spread like a plague. When Peter and Paul lived in Rome contemporaneously, Peter was the city's bishop. He had to be. There was nobody more important in the Church, and there was no more important job in the Church, to pastor the city of Rome. Not Jerusalem. Not Babylon. Rome.

Linus or Cletus succeeded Peter in Rome, that first ancient Roman church, the recipient of the Apostle Paul's greatest epistle. It was first Peter, and then Linus, Cletus, and Clement, the latter three personally led to Christ by either Peter or Paul themselves.

The Church rapidly became an enormous global organization, centered obviously in Rome because of the density of Church members in that city.

 

[HisServant]

The Church exploded in Rome, well before the Apostles departed. The Roman diocese began in Jerusalem, according to the Scripture Acts 2:9,10,11, when Latin-speaking Roman citizens, visiting Jerusalem for Pentecost, heard the Apostles speaking Latin.

Spoiler

A bishop is most prominently an ordained priest who is responsible for a diocese. A diocese is many parishes. For comparison, today, there are on the order of 200,000 parishes of the Holy Catholic Church. There are on the order of 2,000-3,000 bishops, which works out to let's say 50 parishes per bishop. That's a bishop. He (always he) is responsible for 50 parishes. Obviously he cannot say Mass at 50 parishes every day, let alone every Sunday. So instead there are ordained pastors that report to him who say Mass, validly, at the 49 other parishes besides the bishop's own parish, at which he does say Mass regularly, up to and including the pope.

In Rome, in the first century, the Church exploded like nowhere else. When you say, "the Roman co-opt," I sure hope you're thinking about around the 40s and 50s and 60s, because Rome was a Church hotbed from the first. Rome was the Church's bread basket, it was obvious, from very early on, and both Peter and Paul were in Rome when some Romans murdered them. Because they flocked to the city like moths to the light. Because that's where the action was. Rome needed bishops, not just elders or priests. Bishops are pastors of the Church who are entrusted with responsibility for multiple parishes.

Rome caught the Church's faith and it spread like a plague. When Peter and Paul lived in Rome contemporaneously, Peter was the city's bishop. He had to be. There was nobody more important in the Church, and there was no more important job in the Church, to pastor the city of Rome. Not Jerusalem. Not Babylon. Rome.

Linus or Cletus succeeded Peter in Rome, that first ancient Roman church, the recipient of the Apostle Paul's greatest epistle. It was first Peter, and then Linus, Cletus, and Clement, the latter three personally led to Christ by either Peter or Paul themselves.

The Church rapidly became an enormous global organization, centered obviously in Rome because of the density of Church members in that city.

It was illegal to be a christian in Rome for the first three centuries and if you were one and got identified, you were killed.... to say that it exploded in Rome before Constantine had his 'vision' is to ignore history. Many Christians were thrown to the lions and crucified if they did not renounce their faith and convert back to Mithraism.

Next... facts please... just facts.

Did you flunk out of school or something?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

:darwinsm:... Right up there with the glaringly erroneous pseudo-scholarship of Jack Chick. Brilliant.

The Great & Pompous One has spoken.

 

[Ktoyou]

pompous pedantic pontificate. :crackup:

 

[Cruciform]

pompous pedantic pontificate. :crackup:

Come back if you ever come up with an actual argument.

 

[Nihilo]

It was illegal to be a christian in Rome for the first three centuries and if you were one and got identified, you were killed.... to say that it exploded in Rome before Constantine had his 'vision' is to ignore history. Many Christians were thrown to the lions and crucified if they did not renounce their faith and convert back to Mithraism.

Next... facts please... just facts.

Did you flunk out of school or something?

Some prominent Church clergymen were executed, it was not that many, proportionally speaking. Rome was fertile land for the seed of the Word. The Church sprouted and grew powerfully in Rome, in spite of her illicit status there. Her persecution in Rome only stoked her fire.

 

[HisServant]

Some prominent Church clergymen were executed, it was not that many, proportionally speaking. Rome was fertile land for the seed of the Word. The Church sprouted and grew powerfully in Rome, in spite of her illicit status there. Her persecution in Rome only stoked her fire.

40,000 Christians were executed during the reign of Claudius alone.

That is way more than just a few leaders.

Please go study some history... the Romans sought Genocide against 'the way'.

Recent archaeological evidence proves there was no mother church in Rome till mid 4th century. Most Christians in Rome were slaves and indentured servants that lived in their own separate enclaves and were segregated by ethnicity... within their section of the city they had their own grave yard and churches when Christianity was made legal.

Seriously... have you even tried to research any history at all?

Rome is cursed for all eternity.

 

[Nihilo]

40,000 Christians were executed during the reign of Claudius alone.

You mean, there were much more than just 40,000 Christians living in Rome during the reign of Claudius alone.

That is way more than just a few leaders.

Please go study some history... the Romans sought Genocide against 'the way'.

They couldn't do that unless Rome was full of Christians.

Recent archaeological evidence proves there was no mother church in Rome till mid 4th century.

Define "mother church," and also explain why we have an epistle from the bishop of Rome Clement to the diocese of Corinth, before the close of the first century? Why would Clement write this epistle, and why was it preserved so well?

Most Christians in Rome were slaves and indentured servants that lived in their own separate enclaves and were segregated by ethnicity... within their section of the city they had their own grave yard and churches when Christianity was made legal.

Seriously... have you even tried to research any history at all?

Rome is cursed for all eternity.

How much of your view do you think is shaded or colored by your "50-50" preterism? If you believe that the Second Coming was in AD 70, then you really have to think that the preeminence of the Roman diocese and its bishop (the pope) in the Church is a sham, but but barring this bizarre and radical minority view, which, if you're such a history buff, you know the idea never appeared until just very recently, meaning that precisely nobody thought the Second Coming was in AD 70 in and around and following AD 70, else explain why nobody said anything about it . . . barring this, the most obvious explanation is that the Second Coming did not occur in AD 70, and so the historical record of the Church is preferable to an incredibly impressively secret conspiracy that somehow only emerged at all into public discourse in the 1800s, to which you ascribe a "50-50" chance of being the truth.

You balk at the fact that Peter was ever in Rome, but you gloss over that Paul was. You also have nothing to say that popes Linus, Cletus and Clement were personally converted to the faith by Peter or Paul themselves, and that therefore for the first many decades the Church was ruled by Peter, Paul, and their direct converts, in Rome, where both Peter and Paul were martyred. You dismiss history and especially Church history and give us nothing except "50-50" preterism, which you seem to oscillate back-and-forth from depending upon how hard you want to scream that the particular church in Rome is apostate, anti-Christ and evil.

It's kind of a joke.

 

[HisServant]

By whom do we learn about Linus, Cletus and Clement? None of what any of them wrote passed around until after the 4th century. I wonder why? Also, if they did exist, the order in which they succeeded each other is inconsistent in the RC's records.

After Constantine had his vision, they scoured the earth for any document that could prove the primacy of the empire of their religion and suppress the rest. Even Eusibius stated this. Basically, it was a big PR/disinformation campaign by Rome.

Its a fact that Peter was never in Rome... if he was, then Scripture contains a lie.

Anyhow, the RC has a no time in history ever acted Christian... so I rest my case.

 

[Cruciform]

By whom do we learn about Linus, Cletus and Clement?None of what any of them wrote passed around until after the 4th century.I wonder why?Also, if they did exist, the order in which they succeeded each other is inconsistent in the RC's records.After Constantine had his vision, they scoured the earth for any document that could prove the primacy of the empire of their religion and suppress the rest.Even Eusibius stated this.Basically,it was a big PR/disinformation campaign by Rome.Its a fact that Peter was never in Rome... if he was, then Scripture contains a lie.Anyhow, the RC has a no time in history ever acted Christian... so I rest my case.

Yes, the entirely non-authoritative opinions that you've been fed by your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect are noted. :yawn:

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Yes, the entirely non-authoritative opinions that you've been fed by your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect are noted. :yawn:

Another day, another pompous post.

 

[john w]

Yes, the entirely non-authoritative opinions that you've been fed by your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect are noted. :yawn:

"man made," you quip? In contrast to "God made?" That's your best stumper?


"recently invented," as you blind side all of us, and we are stunned?



So, objective truth truth is determined by it's "age," you say?


So, the earth was flat at one time, you say?

So, the person referred to as "God the Father," was not such a person, until the Lord Jesus Christ revealed Him as such?


Sophistry....That is the Roman shill's "ministry."

 

[john w]

Another day, another pompous post.

What do you think, Mayor? You and me-"The Big Freeze?"

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

"man made," you quip? In contrast to "God made?" That's your best stumper?


"recently invented," as you blind side all of us, and we are stunned?



So, objective truth truth is determined by it's "age," you say?


So, the earth was flat at one time, you say?

So, the person referred to as "God the Father," was not such a person, until the Lord Jesus Christ revealed Him as such?


Sophistry....That is the Roman shill's "ministry."

See post#297