Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

[genuineoriginal]

The story is that these men were uniquely gifted by the Spirit of truth /God, to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

That is a nice story, but it isn't true that anyone was gifted by the Spirit to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Even if there were gifted men that spoke only the truth, the people would turn away from them to false teachers because they don't really want to hear the truth.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.​

That is how Augustine was accepted as a great theologian instead of being condemned as the heretic he was.

 

[way 2 go]

Jesus worshiped the God of the Jews, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jesus said God is in heaven.
You are just as wrong as they were .... which is why Jesus CORRECTED THEM, (and you)
John 10:36 say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one."

why does Jesus say "follow me" "serve me" and not point people to follow God the Father?

Joh 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
Joh 21:19 (This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God.) And after saying this he said to him, "Follow me."
Joh 12:26 If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.
Deu 10:20 You shall fear the LORD your God. You shall serve him and hold fast to him, and by his name you shall swear.


why does Jesus say he is lord of the Sabbath when only God is Lord of the Sabbath?

Mat 12:8 For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."
Mar 2:28 So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath."
Exo_20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:


and
why does Jesus say keep my commandments when they are God's commandments?

Joh_14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
Joh_14:21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him."
Joh_15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
Lev_22:31 "So you shall keep my commandments and do them: I am the LORD.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one."

John 17:21-22 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:​

Jesus wants all of us to be one in the exact same manner that Jesus and the Father are one.
If Jesus meant that He was God, wouldn't that mean Jesus wants us to be God as well. (reductio ad absurdum)

 

[Right Divider]

It appears that Paul keeps switching back and forth from talking about God the Father and Jesus Christ the Son of God.

Only to Christ deniers like you.

 

[Dartman]

Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one."

Of course, JUST LIKE the believers and God, and Jesus are ALL "one".

Due to roughly 18 centuries of brainwashing, trintarians and oneness somehow think the phrase "one God" is in this text!
It's not.

why does Jesus say "follow me" "serve me" and not point people to follow God the Father?

Your question is erroneous. Jesus said the first, and greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, mind, strength and soul. EVERYTIME Jesus commands worship of his God, he is talking about his Father, and our Father.

Joh 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
Joh 21:19 (This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God.) And after saying this he said to him, "Follow me."
Joh 12:26 If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.

You have the answer right in your quotes. Jesus glorified his God, his God will honor people who obey the commandment to follow, and honor Jesus as God's son, God's Christ, God's appointed King, etc.

why does Jesus say he is lord of the Sabbath when only God is Lord of the Sabbath?

Mat 12:8 For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath."
Mar 2:28 So the Son of Man is lord even of the Sabbath."

Exo_20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:

Because Jehovah gave Jesus all authority, and all power .... so after Christ's God had anointed Jesus with power, and authority ... Jesus WAS the "lord of the Sabbath". God MADE Jesus "Lord"
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

and
why does Jesus say keep my commandments when they are God's commandments?

Joh_14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
Joh_14:21 Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him."
Joh_15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
Lev_22:31 "So you shall keep my commandments and do them: I am the LORD.

You skipped a couple of VERY key verses;

Deut 18:17-19 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

John 12:49-50 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Acts 3:22-26 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Only to a Christ deniers like you.

I don't deny that Jesus Christ our Lord is the Son of God.
Do you?

 

[Right Divider]

I don't deny that Jesus Christ our Lord is the Son of God.
Do you?

Deny all that you want. I'm done with you.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Deny all that you want. I'm done with you.

John 20:31 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.​

1 John 5:10-13 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.​

 

[aikido7]

I don't think "possible" is the correct term .... it's too wide open.

I do NOT think it's reasonable to believe John would have a substantially different view of Jesus.... given what we see of John's writings, and the other apostles. And by virtue of their shared 3 1/2 years spent WITH Jesus.

John’s depiction of Jesus of Jesus as a mystical philosopher who talks on and on about himself and the importance of beleving in him.

John has no parables and no Last Supper.
His Jesus dies a full 24 hours before he is said to die in Mark, Matthew and Luke.
The word “repent” is not found in John.
There is no concern for the poor, the widows, the orphans, the immigrant and the stranger.

John’s gospel is full of early church theology. It is believed to have been written in around 100 CE.

It is 180 degrees different than the Jesus who taught the Kingdom of God in parables. There are no short sayings or proverbs. Instead, there are the beautiful and magestic “I AM” sayings thoughout John’s gospel such as "I AM the Light of the World," "I AM the vine and you are the branches" and other grest metaphors.

 

[aikido7]

I don't deny that Jesus Christ our Lord is the Son of God.
Do you?

Jesus never referred to himself as “Son of God.”

He often identified himself as “Son of the man” which actually translates to “a human being."

 

[genuineoriginal]

Jesus never referred to himself as “Son of God.”

John 10:36 36 [JESUS]Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?[/JESUS]​

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus never referred to himself as “Son of God.”

He often identified himself as “Son of the man” which actually translates to “a human being."

He was both and identified Himself as both. Meaning He was Human and Divine....Man and God.

 

[glorydaz]

I don't deny that Jesus Christ our Lord is the Son of God.
Do you?

Do you deny the Father is Lord?

 

[Dartman]

John’s depiction of Jesus of Jesus as a mystical philosopher who talks on and on about himself and the importance of beleving in him.

Reading the Gospel of John doesn't agree with your opinion here. There is no "mystical philosopher" mentioned, so please show your verses to establish your claim.

John has no parables and no Last Supper.

John 10:6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.John uses the TERM "parable" less than the other Gospels ... but there are plenty of parables being told!
John is the only Gospel that explains the foot washing service, which directly followed the Last Supper. John gives WAY more details about the conversation between Jesus and his apostles AFTER the foot washing.

His Jesus dies a full 24 hours before he is said to die in Mark, Matthew and Luke.

My research, and ALMOST EVERYONE ELSE, disagrees with your accusation.
Again, please show your verses.

The word “repent” is not found in John.

...... wow .... this is a transparent desperate attempt to fabricate an issue!
"repent" is found twice in Matt, and Mark, and 5 times in Luke ....... this is a non issue.

There is no concern for the poor, the widows, the orphans, the immigrant and the stranger.

John uses the word "poor" 4 times ..... exactly the same as Mark. Again ..... non issue.

John’s gospel is full of early church theology.

You have this backwards. The early church is full of Christ's teachings as John recorded them.

It is believed to have been written in around 100 CE.

By whom???

It is 180 degrees different than the Jesus who taught the Kingdom of God in parables.

Again, show your verses.

There are no short sayings or proverbs.

Like what??

Instead, there are the beautiful and magestic “I AM” sayings thoughout John’s gospel such as "I AM the Light of the World," "I AM the vine and you are the branches" and other grest metaphors.

Those are also called parables.

Jesus didn't capitalize "I AM" .... trinitarian translators did.... because they are SO desperate for ANY Scripture that can be ..... molded ..... to fit their theories.

 

[Dartman]

He was both and identified Himself as both.

Correct.

Meaning He was Human and Divine....Man and God.

Incorrect.
Jesus, Jehovah and the epistles of the apostles disagree with your claim.

 

[glorydaz]

John’s depiction of Jesus of Jesus as a mystical philosopher who talks on and on about himself and the importance of beleving in him.

John has no parables and no Last Supper.
His Jesus dies a full 24 hours before he is said to die in Mark, Matthew and Luke.
The word “repent” is not found in John.
There is no concern for the poor, the widows, the orphans, the immigrant and the stranger.

John’s gospel is full of early church theology. It is believed to have been written in around 100 CE.

It is 180 degrees different than the Jesus who taught the Kingdom of God in parables. There are no short sayings or proverbs. Instead, there are the beautiful and magestic “I AM” sayings thoughout John’s gospel such as "I AM the Light of the World," "I AM the vine and you are the branches" and other grest metaphors.

Foolish heathen. The Gospel of John was written to prove the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. I'm not surprised in the least that you are blind to John's message.

God is Light....Jesus Christ is the True Light.

1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

John 1:9-11 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.​

 

[aikido7]

John 10:36 36 [JESUS]Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?[/JESUS]​

We do find Jesus calling himself God in the Gospel of John [which is full of early Christian theology. Jesus is made to say things like "Before Abraham was, I am.” "I and the Father are one," and "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father."

These are all statements you find only in the Gospel of John.

And that's interesting because we have earlier gospels and we have the writings of Paul, and in none of them is there any indication that Jesus said such things...

I think it's completely implausible that Matthew, Mark and Luke would not mention that Jesus called himself God if that's what he was declaring about himself.

That would be a rather important point to make. This is not an unusual view among scholars and historians. It's simply the view that the Gospel of John is providing a theological understanding of Jesus that is not historically accurate.

The Jesus of history said “Why do you call me good? Only God is good.”
“Friend, who made me a judge over you?”

Jesus was conceived and born of a woman [Matthew 1:18-25]. Also, Paul [in Galations 4:4,5].

He had a human body.
He experienced pain, unger, thirst and fatigue [Matt. 4:2; John 4:6; etc].
He suffered and died [John 19:34].
He could be heard, seen and touched [1 John 1:1].
He exhibited the emotional and intellectual qualities of a human being [Matt. 26:37 and Mark 9:21].

Have evangelicals today lost their wonder at the true and full humanity of Christ?
In fighting for his deity, they seemed to have deliberately overlooked how human God himself became in Jesus of Nazareth.

They would rather worship Christ and leave behind actually following Jesus.

Worshiping Christ demands NOTHING of us.
Nowadays, Christians can believe all the right things and still be a jerk.
Or childishly cruel.

Letting Jesus speak for himself and following his teachings is the Christian journey.

It is in repentance that we change. Leaving behind the modern definition, let’s look for what the word actually meant in Jesus’ day.

The Greek word for repentance is metanoia.
It refers to a total transformation of ones’s entire being.
It describes a complete “about face” of one’s entire personality and belief system.

In Jesus own words, he came to call people to repentance.

 

[glorydaz]

Correct.

Incorrect.
Jesus, Jehovah and the epistles of the apostles disagree with your claim.

I'm sorry you are so blind to what is clearly written. "Jehovah" speaks through the mouth of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the visible of the invisible. For He came and dwelt among us before He returned to His former Glory.

One day, your knee shall bow and your tongue confess that Jesus Christ is LORD. You will be giving an account of yourself before God.

Romans 14:10-12
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.​

 

[aikido7]

Jesus was a wandering Jewish teacher.
This is a statement of FACT.

Jesus was the Son of God, Messiah, Lord...
These are statements of FAITH.

Early Christians used these faith statements and applied them to Jesus.
This, too, is a statement of FACT.

 

[JudgeRightly]

We do find Jesus calling himself God in the Gospel of John [which is full of early Christian theology.
Jesus is made to say things like "Before Abraham was, I am.” "I and the Father are one," and "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father."

These are all statements you find only in the Gospel of John.

And that's striking because we have earlier gospels and we have the writings of Paul, and in none of them is there any indication that Jesus said such things. ...

I think it's completely implausible that Matthew, Mark and Luke would not mention that Jesus called himself God if that's what he was declaring about himself. That would be a rather important point to make. This is not an unusual view amongst scholars; it's simply the view that the Gospel of John is providing a theological understanding of Jesus that is not what was historically accurate.

The Jesus of history said “Why do you call me good? Only God is good.”
“Friend, who made me a judge over you?”

Jesus was conceived and born of a woman [Matthew 1:18-25]. Also, Paul [in Galations 4:4,5].

He had a human body.
He experienced pain, unger, thirst and fatigue [Matt. 4:2; John 4:6; etc].He suffered and died [John 19:34]. He could be heard, seen and touched [1 John 1:1].
He exhibited the emotional and intellectual qualities of a human being [Matt. 26:37 and Mark 9:21].

Evangelicals today have lost their wonder at the true and full humanity of Christ?
In fighting for his deity, they seemed to have deliberately overlooked how human God himself became in Jesus of Nazareth.

Worshiping Christ demands NOTHING of us.
Now days, you can believe all the right things and still be a jerk.
Or childishly cruel.

It’s letting Jesus speak for himself and following his teachings is the Christian journey.

It is in repentance that we change. Leaving behind the modern definition, let’s look for what the word actually meant in Jesus’ day.

The Greek word for repentance is metanoia. It refers to a total transformation of ones’s entire being.
It describes a complete “about face” of one’s entire personality and belief system.

In Jesus own words, he came to call people to repentance.

:kookoo:

Matthew (Lion) = Jesus the Sovereign King (Jesus' lineage from David)
Mark (Ox) = Jesus the Servant (no lineage given, to be expected for a servant)
Luke (Man) = Jesus the Man (Jesus' lineage from Adam)
John (Eagle) = Jesus the I AM (Jesus describes as being "in the beginning" with God and as being God)

Matthew, Mark, and Luke were not describing Jesus as God because that role fell to John.

Note the four-headed creatures in Revelation 4 as having the head of a lion, an ox, a man, and an eagle.

God's creation is Him expressing Himself. (Just like the number three can be found not only throughout the Bible, but also throughout the universe we live in.)

To have the four gospel authors attribute to Jesus each of those four (for lack of a better word) attributes (king, servant, man, and God) only serves as evidence that He IS God in the flesh, "God with us."